Finley Cartwright

GibbosEmpire

GibbosEmpire

Well-known member
Few days ago Fabrizio Romano put on his Instagram story about our youth player Finley Cartwright getting a new agent which will help push through his move to Chelsea, then about 5 minutes later it was removed. Was he told to remove it by Boro?
 
And told to remove by who!

Cartwright is seen as the next big thing but we couldn’t sign him up because he wasn’t 16. It’ll be a shame if he’s poached at such a young age. I can’t think of any 16 year old poached from us who has gone on to make it at a big club
 
Something needs to be done for the health of the game to stop the big clubs just poaching all the best kids. They have enormous academies and enormous U21 squads and enormous numbers of players on long term contracts and out on loan every year.

Maybe a rule that no club can have more than 8 players out on loan will stop this big club hoarding.

It’ll filter down to youth players not wanting to join Chelsea, arsenal, Man City, because they know they won’t make the first team but they won’t go on loan either.
 
He’s got a decent family around him that are Boro fans. I’m not so sure he will jump to Chelsea. Could be about getting the right Boro deal for him and maybe some endorsements. Just because Chelsea want him doesn’t mean he will want to go their.
 
BoroMart said:
Something needs to be done for the health of the game to stop the big clubs just poaching all the best kids. They have enormous academies and enormous U21 squads and enormous numbers of players on long term contracts and out on loan every year.

Maybe a rule that no club can have more than 8 players out on loan will stop this big club hoarding.

It’ll filter down to youth players not wanting to join Chelsea, arsenal, Man City, because they know they won’t make the first team but they won’t go on loan either.
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I’ve said this for years, the current system is ruining the game and increasing the divide between the so called ‘elite’ and the rest of us. I can’t abide the thought that we are essentially blooding players for other teams and before some smart **** comes back with “what about Ramsay, Giles, Archer et al” if the system was different we may have signed them permanently.
These clubs are hoovering up talent that has no chance of playing for them
We’ll take a chance, you reap the benefits is how it works at the moment. Just plain wrong
 
GibbosEmpire said:
Not sure what posses a young kid with great potential to go to a club like Chelsea when they'll barely get a chance, other than money of course but the longevity of that income won't last as long as staying at a club like Boro, at Boro they'll get a chance if they're good enough.
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Even putting the money aside, if a player wants to make it at a team like Boro then they are better off being in an academy at Chelsea and then being loaned out and sold as a PL player to a championship team like us. Coming through at Boro likely means spending your loans at teams like Scunthorpe and Hibs and ending up as a L1 or L2 player. For every Hayden Hackney example of players graduating into our 1st team there are 100 that never got near and I'd guess the average level of our academy graduates ends up being far lower than Chelsea's. The chance of making it at the very top is also far higher by being at Chelsea than at Boro.

How many of our academy graduates have gone to the top level? Chelsea's academy players don't all end up playing for Chelsea but they have far better careers than Boro academy players. This list of ex-Chelsea academy graduates makes the point better than I can explain with words:
Musiala, Rice, James, Mount, Ake, Christensen, Tomori, Abraham, Guehi, Gallagher, Colwill, Broja, Loftus-Cheek, Nketiah, Livramento, Solanke, Chalobah, Hudson-Odoi, Gilmour, Lamptey, Brewster

There is an argument that playing youth football with better players makes better players better. Having the best players spread out among all the clubs is less beneficial for development. They do better when being challenged sufficiently. That should be done centrally by the FA though, not a few elite academies that get rich doing it. There should be a serious change to the way the loan system works because it is unfair these clubs can stockpile players, with no real intention of them making the 1st team, until they get a big money sale.
 
Some clubs should not be allowed to call them Academies, they should be renamed farms. More controls are needed at some of these clubs, they are commodities to clubs like Chelsea, they operate for the club rather than the youngster it seems to me, how regulated are they anyway?
 
Nano said:
How many of our academy graduates have gone to the top level? Chelsea's academy players don't all end up playing for Chelsea but they have far better careers than Boro academy players. This list of ex-Chelsea academy graduates makes the point better than I can explain with words:
Musiala, Rice, James, Mount, Ake, Christensen, Tomori, Abraham, Guehi, Gallagher, Colwill, Broja, Loftus-Cheek, Nketiah, Livramento, Solanke, Chalobah, Hudson-Odoi, Gilmour, Lamptey, Brewster
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That’s only because they sign a huge number of academy players from all over Europe. They also have just as many players as us that don’t make it, or instead of having a top career have a lower one because they didn’t get the opportunities.

With so many players at Chelsea on 6+ year contracts, it will block the path to the first team. Add on to that the “1 loan player from a prem team to a prem team “ rule and that’s a lot of kids that aren’t gonna get the chance of prem footy.
 
BoroMart said:
That’s only because they sign a huge number of academy players from all over Europe. They also have just as many players as us that don’t make it, or instead of having a top career have a lower one because they didn’t get the opportunities.

With so many players at Chelsea on 6+ year contracts, it will block the path to the first team. Add on to that the “1 loan player from a prem team to a prem team “ rule and that’s a lot of kids that aren’t gonna get the chance of prem footy.
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I totally agree. That was in answer to "why would someone choose to go to Chelsea over Boro". I'm saying it's not just financial. The chances of succeeding are better at a club like Chelsea because failure there is still likely to be a higher level than success at Boro.

Chelsea's model isn't to produce first teamers. It's to produce revenue. As @coluka says, it's more like a farm.
 
A highly talented young player could see a top level academy as a huge opportunity. It all depends on their ability, potential and mental attributes. Some will be deluded and think they will easily break through there. Others will go knowing they will have to step up their game and work harder than ever.

Chelsea were rumoured to be paying Christensen £30k+ a week when he turned 17 and he broke through a year or two later. Even if he hadn't, he was talented enough to have had his pick of bottom level Premier League clubs or top Championship clubs going out on loan. Our players only end up in league 1 or 2 because they're not good enough for the level we're at, not because they're not good enough for Chelsea.
 
Two weeks later and still no news of Finn Cartwright signing on? Concerning that such a highly thought of talent hasn't been announced yet.
 
The reason Chelsea academies are so successful is that they hoover up all the young talent as mentioned above from all over Europe and pay them £30k a week (if the Christendom story above is accurate).

They cheery pick the best so obviously going to be more chance of a career. If an academy is not top level then they can practically just take them and pay compensation at pre determined amount based on years they trains with original club and future success.

So pick the best 15 year old from each tier 2 academy, and pay them more money than would get at current club. Pay x pounds for evert player and then Chelsea academy improves and weakens others.

1 or 2 make first team saving countless millions.

1or 2 go to be sold to premiership teams making millions.

Few get sold for a couple million to championship , others to the lower leagues for nominal fees and add ons making more money for them, and repeat helping to consolidate there academy as the best and making a profit to help them spunk it on top ready made talent from around world and starving vital income to the other teams who can’t afford tier 1 academies because they cost to much and the top teams keep taking away the talent they produce for next to nothing and lining pockets of the bigger clubs
 
Just done bit of research…

The EPPP :

The new rules mean that a Category 1 academy can go to any other training ground to watch a player (giving 48 hours' notice) and effectively buy the player for a fixed fee starting from £3,000.

Years spent at academy

Fixed fee per year

aged 9–11 £3,000
aged 12–16 £12,500 – £40,000 depending on academy category.

App. Prem. champ. L.1. L.2

10 £150,000 £25,000 £10,000 £5,000
20 £300,000 £50,000 £20,000 £10,000
30 £450,000 £75,000 £30,000 £15,000
40 £600,000 £100,000 £40,000 £20,000
50 £750,000 £125,000 £50,000 £25,000
60 £900,000 £150,000 £60,000 £30,000
70 £1m. £175,000. £70,000 £35,000
80 £1,1m. £200,000. £80,000 £40,000
90 £1,2m £225,000 £90,000 £45,000
100 £1,3m. £250,000 £100,000 £50,000

So if a 16 year old walks from our academy at 16 then the compensation is circa £170k. Very low risk.

I imagine a loan or two to lower leagues would cover that. If he is a success and makes 100 appearances then you would imagine he is a £50m plus player. Picked up for under £1.5m. The incentive is there to farm these players. Take the risk now and see what happens, if it doesn’t work out then sell him on or dump on scrap heap.

Can imagine very easy to recoup the £170k initial outlay at the expense of the smaller clubs
 
Wha
The_Big_Woodowski said:
Just done bit of research…

The EPPP :

The new rules mean that a Category 1 academy can go to any other training ground to watch a player (giving 48 hours' notice) and effectively buy the player for a fixed fee starting from £3,000.

Years spent at academy

Fixed fee per year

aged 9–11 £3,000
aged 12–16 £12,500 – £40,000 depending on academy category.

App. Prem. champ. L.1. L.2

10 £150,000 £25,000 £10,000 £5,000
20 £300,000 £50,000 £20,000 £10,000
30 £450,000 £75,000 £30,000 £15,000
40 £600,000 £100,000 £40,000 £20,000
50 £750,000 £125,000 £50,000 £25,000
60 £900,000 £150,000 £60,000 £30,000
70 £1m. £175,000. £70,000 £35,000
80 £1,1m. £200,000. £80,000 £40,000
90 £1,2m £225,000 £90,000 £45,000
100 £1,3m. £250,000 £100,000 £50,000

So if a 16 year old walks from our academy at 16 then the compensation is circa £170k. Very low risk.

I imagine a loan or two to lower leagues would cover that. If he is a success and makes 100 appearances then you would imagine he is a £50m plus player. Picked up for under £1.5m. The incentive is there to farm these players. Take the risk now and see what happens, if it doesn’t work out then sell him on or dump on scrap heap.

Can imagine very easy to recoup the £170k initial outlay at the expense of the smaller clubs
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What a disgusting model
 
Seen another way, what if your son was invited to join his local academy team (not your team). Then a big club tried to poach him and promised him big money. Obviously, you'd be sorely tempted. Yes, he'd been training at the local academy for a few years and they had developed him - but it's not like they 'gave' him his talent is it? So therefore why should they - or their fans - feel like they 'own' it?

It's easy to see it from a partisan perspective - us being robbed of an 'asset' by a bigger club - but we should remember we are talking about a child here.
 
equaliser said:
Seen another way, what if your son was invited to join his local academy team (not your team). Then a big club tried to poach him and promised him big money. Obviously, you'd be sorely tempted. Yes, he'd been training at the local academy for a few years and they had developed him - but it's not like they 'gave' him his talent is it? So therefore why should they - or their fans - feel like they 'own' it?

It's easy to see it from a partisan perspective - us being robbed of an 'asset' by a bigger club - but we should remember we are talking about a child here.
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I would advise my son to think about how much football he’s likely to play for that club. I know there are no guarantees in football as the so called smaller club would drop him like a bad habit if he didn’t fulfil his potential but as I understand it, you are discussing money? In that case, I would be asking my son to consider, how much do you really need? However, my experience of kids is that they’ll ultimately do what they want.
Wouldn’t you rather be a good player at a reasonable club than a reserve perpetually loaned out?
 
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