Ex Forces don't count for any help according to Sunak

[r00fie1]

Really, IT engineers? Jesus

Do they know what they're doing? Every bit of IT or tech we were using was decades old. Everything took so long to test and get approved, that by the time it finally came in it was well old!

There are quite a few nerds in the forces mind (like myself), and loads of people playing computer games etc, so I bet a lot of that what they know was self taught and maybe they did a top up course on resettlement.

I suppose my last job was quite IT heavy, and only a few were allowed to work on the computers/ record the work, mostly senior staff but everyone senior was largelly IT clueless from what I saw. Was like a collection of my nana and grandad, everyone single finger typing and not having a clue how to work around even the smallest of problems. The younger folk got it much better, but were not allowed anywhere near the computers, they hadn't climbed the ladder from the sweeping brush yet.

Was similar with the NVQ we could get, I think I was the first to do it on my base at least, maybe one of the first in the RAF at all, and I only did it as it was a 5k pay rise. The system had been going 2-3 years and I rang the NVQ section up and they had no idea what needed to be done, they must have just been tossing it off for 2-3 years. I eventually figured it out myself. Ended up doing half the squadrons NVQ's for various favours, must have taught about 100 people how to do it directly/ indirectly. I probably cost the RAF a few million in wages

Dont forget the 5 star accomodation, bone-china tea-cups and silk sheets

 

[BaronSmoggie]

No I have a real job

Burger and chips please.

 

[NYboro]

Ex forces, in my experience, are more likely to be Tory voters. Wonder if that will change considering the disdain the Tories show them?

And before people pile on, this is only my personal experience. I have a few ex forces in the family and live close to a couple of bases. A few mates are also ex-forces. All of the ex-forces that come in my local are pretty far to the right of the political spectrum. Maybe Reform will be who they choose?

I'd agree with that. Unfortunately, too many that I come across seem to have the mentality of "I'm just a soldier, I wasn't paid to think".

 

[Expat Smoggie]

When did you leave Expat?

Back in 90

 

[Lemmy_kilmister]

Ex forces, in my experience, are more likely to be Tory voters. Wonder if that will change considering the disdain the Tories show them?

Not this callsign.

I'd sooner hammer nails into my forehead than ever vote conservative.

 

[MolteniArcore]

Not this callsign.

I'd sooner hammer nails into my forehead than ever vote conservative.

Pleased to hear it

 

[The_Unicorn]

Back in 90

Yeah I left mid 80s RN and RAF have changed dranmatically since then, the Army not so much. I currently work for a Local Authority with Veterans and those leaving the forces who are homeless or at risk of Homelessness. 90% of our referrals are army, predominately Rifles, Artillery & Cavalry. We work to the strictures of the 'Armed Forces Covenant' which provides a duty to give 'parity' not favour to veterans. An example of this would be someone leaving the forces after 22 years will need support accessing services that many of us will be used to dealing with. If a civilian has registered for Social Housing their chances of getting a property will increase with the number of years they have been on the register, clearly someone who has been in the forces living in barracks, on a ship, married quarters will not be able to have done this, so on application their application will be backdated (this only applies if they have served at least 3 years). It does appear those that have served a short term are the people who feel most entitled with longer servers more reluctant to seek support. The RN & RAF provide a lot of support prior to discharge now hence we get few of those being referred to us, the Army, although things are changing due to work we have done, often often refer to us days before the person is due to leave. I do think the Army tend to be more right wing but would disagree for RN, i'm there with SuperStu and Scrote. The other thing I can't get my head around is ex army calling each other Sarge and Corp long after they have left, I didn't call many people by their rank when I was in and certainly wouldn't have done so after I left.

 

[Norfolkred1]

Yeah I left mid 80s RN and RAF have changed dranmatically since then, the Army not so much. I currently work for a Local Authority with Veterans and those leaving the forces who are homeless or at risk of Homelessness. 90% of our referrals are army, predominately Rifles, Artillery & Cavalry. We work to the strictures of the 'Armed Forces Covenant' which provides a duty to give 'parity' not favour to veterans. An example of this would be someone leaving the forces after 22 years will need support accessing services that many of us will be used to dealing with. If a civilian has registered for Social Housing their chances of getting a property will increase with the number of years they have been on the register, clearly someone who has been in the forces living in barracks, on a ship, married quarters will not be able to have done this, so on application their application will be backdated (this only applies if they have served at least 3 years). It does appear those that have served a short term are the people who feel most entitled with longer servers more reluctant to seek support. The RN & RAF provide a lot of support prior to discharge now hence we get few of those being referred to us, the Army, although things are changing due to work we have done, often often refer to us days before the person is due to leave. I do think the Army tend to be more right wing but would disagree for RN, i'm there with SuperStu and Scrote. The other thing I can't get my head around is ex army calling each other Sarge and Corp long after they have left, I didn't call many people by their rank when I was in and certainly wouldn't have done so after I left.

Not sure if it's still relevant but when I joined in 1980 my Dad told me to get onto the Council list and for years after I received a letter for me to sign and confirm my remaining on that list. As time went by and I got onto the property ladder it was not required and taken off the list. Is this still an option!!

 

[xxlshirts_fit_all]

Not this callsign.

I'd sooner hammer nails into my forehead than ever vote conservative.

Me too, but it wasn’t always the case…

I think I was blinded in my youth by the view that you only got what you worked for and anyone else was loafing and sponging…

I do think that my views swung in the right direction after years of listening to colleagues play the “I’m alright jack” card and I’d agree many armed forces hold right wing view… I thank those others who showed my the right path that those less fortunate often need more support than they get…

 

[Lightweight]

Yeah I left mid 80s RN and RAF have changed dranmatically since then, the Army not so much

Have to disagree with this I left in the Army after 12 years, I play a part in recruitment for a multinational company ( I work for ) targeting a particular sector of the Army, the Army has changed dramatically in the 27 years since I left ( maybe just the personnel I deal).
I have not had much involvement with infantry units / personnel since I left but As @Andy_W commented majority of the guys I worked with have gone onto to have financially successful careers and are able to retire in their mid fifties.

The RN & RAF provide a lot of support prior to discharge now hence we get few of those being referred to us, the Army, although things are changing due to work we have done, often often refer to us days before the person is due to leave.

The resettlement support in the nineties was excellent and I was able to access multiple courses and support from the day I gave my 1 year notice , ( training, secondments, distance learning course, additional time off and travel expenses). Again this might be due to the Sector I worked in and maybe this is not as accessible for the infantry Regiments.

I do think the Army tend to be more right wing but would disagree for RN,

Again I do not think ( excluding Officers) , I could name one Tory voter / right winger in my time in the Army ( 12 years), but do not doubt any of your comments but this just underlines that none of the above comments ( mine included) is facts but just our own lived experience.

The other thing I can't get my head around is ex army calling each other Sarge and Corp long after they have left, I didn't call many people by their rank when I was in and certainly wouldn't have done so after I left.

This not something I have witnessed or experienced , since leaving I have worked with somewhere in the region of 50 to 80 ex Army soldiers of various ranks and not once have any been referred to by any Rank. Also when in the Army no one ever used abbreviation for rank such as Sarge / corp.

 

[r00fie1]

From my experience, having been a weekend warrior and a qualified mental health nurse, the bigest issue I found was support for ex-forces with PTSD and related issues. A weekend "decompression" in Cyprus on the way back from Afghan had done nothing to support those soldiers [particularly] returning home. Unfortunately I found the Armed Forces Covenant just another emblem on glossy literature and a tick box.

 

[Johngannonsunderpants]

People coming out of prison get more housing support than veterans

 

[r00fie1]

People coming out of prison get more housing support than veterans

Approximately 8% of those in the Judicial System have either served or have links to the forces - totally disproportionate to their overall percentage of the population. Issue with mental health, like recurring nightmares, flash backs, feelings of isolation, self - neglect, inability to relate to partners and others can lead to an increase in violence, which brings in the justice system. Often ex-Army [mainly] arent given any support and some end up on the streets, becoming dependent on substances, illicit drugs, alcohol, etc.

Incidentally, Combat Stress had their budget cut by £3.2M [20% of its total budget] by Boris Johnsons Government, which has had a lasting impact on what support they can offer. It was cut again in 2019!

Combat Stress loses £3.2m of funding from NHS England

The figure is equivalent to 20 per cent of the charity's total annual income, but it says it is not anticipating any job losses at this stage

www.thirdsector.co.uk

 

[Lightweight]

From my experience, having been a weekend warrior and a qualified mental health nurse, the bigest issue I found was support for ex-forces with PTSD and related issues. A weekend "decompression" in Cyprus on the way back from Afghan had done nothing to support those soldiers [particularly] returning home. Unfortunately I found the Armed Forces Covenant just another emblem on glossy literature and a tick box.

A great point, when we came back from the first gulf war everyone ( married and singles) were confined to a barracks and encouraged to drink to “ decompress “. No assessment to check how any individual was coping.
No ex forces I know / knew was asking for special treatment but just access to support to help live a “ normal “ life. Thankfully charities are taking up the slack that the Armed forces Covenant fails to deliver on.

 

[r00fie1]

A great point, when we came back from the first gulf war everyone ( married and singles) were confined to a barracks and encouraged to drink to “ decompress “. No assessment to check how any individual was coping.
No ex forces I know / knew was asking for special treatment but just access to support to help live a “ normal “ life. Thankfully charities are taking up the slack that the Armed forces Covenant fails to deliver on.

Yeah. I found many of the lads were still in the typical Army mind-set: "I`m alright" "fkng man-up" "nothing wrong with me" "I`l sort myself out". But it took hitting rock bottom to admit they needed some some help, but didnt want to be seen going to the GP`s or entering units with "NHS" above the door. Like an admission of personal failure. Added to that, trying to talk to a "civvi" who didnt have any forces experience, felt like a waste of time. Sad, but it took some arm twisting.

 

[Laughing]

This thread disappoints me a little.

Many of our men and women who served will come out unscathed but plenty do not. Stories of mates and cohorts don't tell the full story.

1 in 1000 ex military commit suicide.

1 in 20 of the London homeless come from a military background.

Whilst entering the military you know you may be expected to kill or even die, most young men don't consider that.

We live in a country where ex service men's suffering is ameliorated by the yearly passing round of a begging bowl for them agreeing to give the ultimate sacrifice.

Who cares if they get free driving license or education, not me.

Should they be given preferential treatment? F***ing yes of their problem is created by their service.

 

[Andy_W]

Dont forget the 5 star accomodation, bone-china tea-cups and silk sheets

Mate, when I was 21 they paid for me to stay on the strip (technically just off the strip, by inches) in Las Vegas for a month, and I got paid $100 a day extra for it That $100 was meant to be for for food etc, but of course the food was billable to the room, or free/ billable on camp anyway Came back home for two weeks and then was back out in Arizona and we were not even allowed to work when we got there, couldn't even make it up, was the best job in the world.

Was absolutely hammered any other time I was not in "work", and "work" was maybe 4-5 hours easy graft maybe 4-5 days a week.

 

[Andy_W]

I'd agree with that. Unfortunately, too many that I come across seem to have the mentality of "I'm just a soldier, I wasn't paid to think".

That's one of the main reasons I left, too many people happy to do things the wrong way, like lemmings.

I can understand why people thought like "I'm just a soldier" though, as anyone who wanted to make things better and more efficient was sort of looked at like they're wrong for being right, because some other dude with zero experience says it's better to do it the wrong way, because that's the way it's always been done in other places.

It was like there was absolutely zero self accountability, as you basically just blame the procedure or whoever is higher up the chain, and you're not allowed self accountability or to think for yourself. So you do it their way, which is wrong, and then something goes wrong, and then because something went wrong the punishment just gets passed down and down and down, and eventually to the person who was trying to avoid it all along, it's weird.

The promotion system was a mess too, good people getting held in position and rank, as they were extremely valuable where they were at (so they get low scores, or their progression dragged out), and others being given high ratings to get rid of them, so promoted off elsewhere So then some other unfortunate place gets a supercharged idiot to come in and wreck the place.

People getting promoted based on time, not on ability, was an absolute sickener.

 

[Andy_W]

From my experience, having been a weekend warrior and a qualified mental health nurse, the bigest issue I found was support for ex-forces with PTSD and related issues. A weekend "decompression" in Cyprus on the way back from Afghan had done nothing to support those soldiers [particularly] returning home. Unfortunately I found the Armed Forces Covenant just another emblem on glossy literature and a tick box.

When we were coming back via Cyprus in 2003 they had done the same with the Dutch Marines, and they came in and absolutely destroyed the place. Apparently going from Basra to Amsterdam wasn't a good idea, so Cyprus took the hit. Bad timing for us being there waiting for a herc or a civvy plane to take us home. We ended up in a fair few scraps trying to defend the local permanent staff's families etc, but took a lot of bruises for it!

 

[Norfolkred1]

When we were coming back via Cyprus in 2003 they had done the same with the Dutch Marines, and they came in and absolutely destroyed the place. Apparently going from Basra to Amsterdam wasn't a good idea, so Cyprus took the hit. Bad timing for us being there waiting for a herc or a civvy plane to take us home. We ended up in a fair few scraps trying to defend the local permanent staff's families etc, but took a lot of bruises for it!

I think I was there about the same time on det with our Radar. The Dutch were itching for a fight with anyone who got in their way or looked at them at all. There was plans to shift them to Troodos but it never happened, I think that's when Bloodhound Camp came into being.