England vs N. Macedonia

Fantastic performance and result. And this is without our best midfielder.

We have Jude, Foden, Grealish, James all within touching distance of starting for England. Our strength in depth is looking good.

We're still light at CB as without Stones I seriously would be worried going into a KO tournament. I'd like us to start trying other options to Maguire as he's not good enough. He never has been, and never will be. He tries his best, but bottom line is, he's not good enough.

As for going forward, we have one of the best #9's in the world, and the pace surrounding him is frightening. Kane dropping deep and allowing the wide players to run inside is deadly. Saka, Rashford, Grealish, Foden. Some fantastic options there. I don't think many teams (if any) would be happy going up against our striking force.

I honestly think we will go into the Euro's next year as 2nd favourites behind France and rightly so. I think us and France are well ahead of the rest of Europe at this moment in time.

Hopefully Southgate continues with Alexander-Arnold in that midfield role because his range of passing is KDB like. Jude/Rice/TAA has to be our main trio in midfield, with Henderson in reserve.

Gallagher and Phillips aren't good enough....and if it wasn't for them playing for big clubs, they'd be nowhere near the squad.
No place for Foden in the team? Is he going to be one of those top quality players that we just can't seem to make fit in the England team. Like Scholes or Barnes.
Personally I'd prefer Bellingham and Rice as the two in front of midfield with Foden in the 10. Then Rashford left and Saka right.
 
I don't get the hate for Maguire, he's had three really good major tournaments in a row now.

He needs to move clubs this summer though, otherwise the fury at him being selected for England will just get even worse before Germany next year.
I don't think he has.

I think he had 1 good tournament, which was very much due to Southgate adopting a defensive approach, protecting his back 5.

Last World Cup, Giroud was his man who got in front of him and bullied him for the winning header. Those are the fine margins in KO football.

He's not a good enough CB for a nation wanting to challenging for the biggest honours.

It is no surprise one of ETH's first jobs at Utd was removing Maguire from their starting 11 - and hey presto, they went and won a trophy and qualified for top 4, resulting in a decent (and much improved) season.

Southgate's love and faith in some of his players, regardless of form/performances, is a little bit of a let down. Personally I wouldn't have him in the squad, but for Southgate to continuously play him is just going to end up with more heartbreak IMO.
 
No place for Foden in the team? Is he going to be one of those top quality players that we just can't seem to make fit in the England team. Like Scholes or Barnes.
Personally I'd prefer Bellingham and Rice as the two in front of midfield with Foden in the 10. Then Rashford left and Saka right.
I've said for years now, our team should be built around Foden and Bellingham (I add Saka into that argument now too). These are the future. They are incredible and would arguably walk into any other national side.

Our left handside is blessed to be fair. Rashford, Grealish and Foden are fantastic and all 3 are deserving of a place. Tough (but good) headache for Southgate at the moment.
 
See, the flaw with this argument is that had England had to dig deep and scraped a 5-4 victory with a last minute own goal, nobody would have been saying “England didn’t have to get out of second gear” but it would probably have been a pretty poor defensive performance.

I was there tonight and England very much, in my opinion, got into sixth gear and that’s exactly why they absolutely demolished an opposition who are no slouches. They blew them away. Honestly I felt sorry for Jordan Pickford, I think I had to do more.
We were very very good tonight, I think if we’d left Rashford and saka on we’d have scored 10. Let’s make no mistake, they are a very decent side, they beat Italy last year and Germany the year before. They rarely get thrashed.

There are always people out there looking for the negatives. But there haven’t been any so far in this qualifying campaign.
 
Southgate's love and faith in some of his players, regardless of form/performances, is a little bit of a let down. Personally I wouldn't have him in the squad, but for Southgate to continuously play him is just going to end up with more heartbreak IMO.
Luckily southgates the boss though. He recognises a team is better than the sun of its parts. England needed Maguire in defence the last 6 years. He has been great in that position. Do I think he’s the best player in the world in his position? No, but he’s experienced, organising and managing does the dirty work. Ultimately to take the next step forward, maybe we do need a layer a notch up in quality, but there isn’t a CB in England that has the experience and is better.
 
I've said for years now, our team should be built around Foden and Bellingham (I add Saka into that argument now too). These are the future. They are incredible and would arguably walk into any other national side.

Our left handside is blessed to be fair. Rashford, Grealish and Foden are fantastic and all 3 are deserving of a place. Tough (but good) headache for Southgate at the moment.
My only problem with Foden, is he’s very easily pushed off the ball despite being a superb player. He’s a player capable of game changing moments, but I’d like to see him take ownership of games a little more often, I feel he’s got more in his locker than he consistently shows.
 
but there isn’t a CB in England that has the experience and is better
I think there could be though.

Dunk at Brighton has been outstanding for a good few years now and doesn't get a look in.

I'm very confident if Dunk played for a bigger club, he'd have a lot more caps than he does. He's a fabulous defender and is excellent on the ball. He's also a threat at set pieces.

Guehi looks good and has been solid for Palace for a few seasons now. He's only 22 so should still have a lot of improving in him. Personally I don't think he's good enough just yet, but at 22, his best years are definitely ahead of him and his potential is there.

Ben White is a solid defender, and before this season played the majority of his career at CB. He's only 25 as well. He's had a great season at Arsenal - albeit at RB.

I do think there's plenty of options out there for us, who have much much higher potential than Maguire and who are a better CB than Maguire.
 
Dunk at Brighton has been outstanding for a good few years now and doesn't get a look in.
Good player but his experiences at the top high pressure games are negligible. He has no European experience, no international experience. No tournament football experience I’d be happy with him in the squad but he’s way behind Maguire in those terms.

Guehi isn’t good enough yet and you can tell comparing him and Maguire in an England shirt.

Ben white is too lightweight at CB miles behind Maguire again.

I hope someone does come through and take Maguire spot on merit, but I’ve not seen anyone who can do that.
 
He has no European experience, no international experience. No tournament football experience I’d be happy with him in the squad but he’s way behind Maguire in those terms.
Agree. Experience can be vital.

But how does one get these experiences?

Before Southgate was manager, Maguire had none of these experiences, and yet was given an opportunity, based on very little.
 
The resonse to that is, this is a poor Italian side - they didn't even qualify for the World Cup!!!

If England beat a top nation its because that top nation is no longer as good as it was previously, if we beat a minnow, well we should beat them. They keep this going until we do lose to a top nation like France and then its typical England choke at the first real test.

People dont like Southgate and for whatever reason are anti England its pointless trying to argue.

This England team is the best in my lifetime, its like watching a club team. All these players from rival clubs getting along like best mates, its fantastic. Having so many options to come on and change a game and goals coming from all angles.

Very impressive performance against a team that yes we should beat but are in a know way a walkover as they have proven over the past couple of qualification campaigns.
We had the usual comments after the last World Cup......."I'm giving up on England, we always bottle it when it really matters".

At the end of the day, I wonder if German and Italian fans had the same attitude. I wonder if any Boro fans have decided to give up on supporting Boro after we "bottled" the playoffs.

I'm not as passionate as I once was about the national side, I didn't even realise we were playing until somebody posted about Gazza being at the game on here, but I still regard myself as an England supporter and I'll be right into it when the Euros begin.

I struggle to understand why so many find it difficult to get behind the national side. I could understand it to an extent when we had the golden generation crop of players, as many of them did come across as being unlikeable, but I don't find any of the current crop to be particularly unlikeable.

I sometimes wonder whether it's because a lot of neutrals hate England, so English supporters feel uncomfortable about supporting England.
 
Agree. Experience can be vital.

But how does one get these experiences?

Before Southgate was manager, Maguire had none of these experiences, and yet was given an opportunity, based on very little.
Of course, Guehi is obviously getting some of that now, probably needs to get with a European qualified side to expand it. There’s no short cut to experience, he’ll be at the right experience level in 3 or 4 years.

Maguire was part of that Southgate policy of pushing out the old failures that had stayed too long. That was needed at the time. It was the right thing to do because the squad had been an abject failure before him. So we had to take the hit and replace experience with potential. I don’t think we are in that same situation today. Secondary was that the squad he inherited were mentally not correct for the culture he wanted, so he swept those players out.

Southgate has been pretty good at bringing young players in, but keeping the right type of experience in the spine.
 
I sometimes wonder whether it's because a lot of neutrals hate England, so English supporters feel uncomfortable about supporting England.
Matt personal opinion is that a large quantity of people want Southgate to fail for being intelligent and ‘woke’. He’s a victim of the culture wars and it didn’t take long after the euros for the racist morons with no empathy to start their hate towards this squad. If we win the euros they’ll still wishing about perceived failures
 
No place for Foden in the team? Is he going to be one of those top quality players that we just can't seem to make fit in the England team. Like Scholes or Barnes.
Personally I'd prefer Bellingham and Rice as the two in front of midfield with Foden in the 10. Then Rashford left and Saka right.
Barnes played around 80 games for England, the problem were his performances.

We've got so many youngsters coming through to compliment the veterans now, I've never known such a genuine crop of top quality England players.
 
Barnes played around 80 games for England, the problem were his performances.

We've got so many youngsters coming through to compliment the veterans now, I've never known such a genuine crop of top quality England players.
Attacking absolutely yes. I do feel CM, LB and CB lack depth and to be honest the drop from Kane to Wilson or Toney is massive too
 
Barnes played around 80 games for England, the problem were his performances.

We've got so many youngsters coming through to compliment the veterans now, I've never known such a genuine crop of top quality England players.
And Scholes played 66 games. Not necessarily saying they were underused just that we struggled to get the best out of their talents. Worry Foden might go the same way but hopefully Southgate can find a way of getting the best out of him
 
Matt personal opinion is that a large quantity of people want Southgate to fail for being intelligent and ‘woke’. He’s a victim of the culture wars and it didn’t take long after the euros for the racist morons with no empathy to start their hate towards this squad. If we win the euros they’ll still wishing about perceived failures
I feel it's always been the same with England during my lifetime though. Not sure whether a lot of fans became disillusioned when we had the likes of Ashley Cole, Terry and Rooney representing England, and found it difficult to get behind the team but this underlying resentment towards the national team is still there.
 
Of course, Guehi is obviously getting some of that now, probably needs to get with a European qualified side to expand it. There’s no short cut to experience, he’ll be at the right experience level in 3 or 4 years.

Maguire was part of that Southgate policy of pushing out the old failures that had stayed too long. That was needed at the time. It was the right thing to do because the squad had been an abject failure before him. So we had to take the hit and replace experience with potential. I don’t think we are in that same situation today. Secondary was that the squad he inherited were mentally not correct for the culture he wanted, so he swept those players out.

Southgate has been pretty good at bringing young players in, but keeping the right type of experience in the spine.
Agree, and ironically IMO the same needs to happen to Maguire as it did to those players Southgate initially inherited, if we want to improve.
 
Matt personal opinion is that a large quantity of people want Southgate to fail for being intelligent and ‘woke’. He’s a victim of the culture wars and it didn’t take long after the euros for the racist morons with no empathy to start their hate towards this squad. If we win the euros they’ll still wishing about perceived failures
This and also snobbery - He only managed Middlesbrough so he is in no way good enough to manage England. People's minds where made up before he was appointed.
 
People also just turn on managers when they don't win trophies, or don't meet fan expectation.

It happens everywhere.

Even if we'd won the Euros, and we were an inch away from doing so, fans would probably still have been baying for his blood at the first sign of trouble.
The fans always think they know better.

I'm sure a sizeable chunk of our fanbase will turn on Carrick if we struggle for a bit, despite how well he's started.
 
People also just turn on managers when they don't win trophies, or don't meet fan expectation.

It happens everywhere.

Even if we'd won the Euros, and we were an inch away from doing so, fans would probably still have been baying for his blood at the first sign of trouble.
The fans always think they know better.

I'm sure a sizeable chunk of our fanbase will turn on Carrick if we struggle for a bit, despite how well he's started.
Agree with this, and I'm braced for it this season. I have tended to defend managers on this board, and expect to be doing so yet again at some point during the coming season if Carrick doesn't continue with the same ppg or has us sitting outside of the play-off spots at any point.
 
Back
Top