BoroMart
Well-known member
the problem is forced by a dearth of capable LBs, he doesn't like Saka as a wing back, only as a forward player
England v Hungary 7:45pm
- Thread starter Cuthbert
- Start date
Ebor
Well-known member
Yes but no, but yes, but... etc
Make a point
BoroMart
Well-known member
To be fair Grealish and Foden usually play more advanced than Philips and Rice, and they've both had injury and illness issues.
Foden, will be in the starting XI if fit. Grealish still has to find more consistency. Winning freekicks all the time just allows the opposition to get their team back in formation. Simplistic view? Maybe, but unless you have a solid freekick specialist or really bullies in the air, then nothing tends to come from them.
parmoboy
Well-known member
I'd mentioned recently that I was concerned, due to Southgate in my opinion experimenting too much with his team selections.
We've had completely different team selections for the recent friendlies and nation league games and I'd have preferred for Southgate to have used these games as an opportunity to put out the team closest to the one he's likely to put out at the world cup.
Does he know what his best team is though? I'd imagine the team he put out vs Germany is likely to be the biggest indicator of the kind of team he'll put out in Qatar, but I'd imagine he's still unsure who will partner Rice in midfield.
I've found his decision not to call up a natural LB/LWB this time around very strange. Fair enough Chilwell and Shaw were unavailable, but why not call up Mitchell, Creswell or Targett instead?
We've had completely different team selections for the recent friendlies and nation league games and I'd have preferred for Southgate to have used these games as an opportunity to put out the team closest to the one he's likely to put out at the world cup.
Does he know what his best team is though? I'd imagine the team he put out vs Germany is likely to be the biggest indicator of the kind of team he'll put out in Qatar, but I'd imagine he's still unsure who will partner Rice in midfield.
I've found his decision not to call up a natural LB/LWB this time around very strange. Fair enough Chilwell and Shaw were unavailable, but why not call up Mitchell, Creswell or Targett instead?
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TeaCider
Well-known member
The point is there and easy to see.
There are far fewer friendlies today, previous managers had more in which they could experiment without the same pressure on getting a result.
That luxury is gone, which makes things slightly harder for Southgate, but it still doesn't excuse being beaten 4-0 at home by Hungary.
TeaCider
Well-known member
It's a strange one.
I could understand it if the decision was just that Trippier would play there if Chillwell and Shaw are injured and stuck with that, but we've had 3 different right backs playing there in this period.
If you're going to experiment that much, he should definitely have just brought in an actual left back.
parmoboy
Well-known member
It's square pegs in round holes.
I understand it can happen at club level when you're faced with injuries and suspensions, but at international level, when you have such a large pool of players to choose from, there's no excuse for not playing players on their natural positions.
I presume you don't like The Nations League, since you keep saying 'glorified friendly', but it's not really correct.
As mentioned previously there is a qualification route in to the Euros. There is a prize pool of something like €100M. Attendances are higher than those for actual friendlies. There is relegation and promotion. (The atmosphere at games is most definitely different from friendlies too).
If you said it was a 2nd or 3rd rate tournament, I couldn't really disagree... but they're not friendlies.
BoroMart
Well-known member
It's a minor competition right now. It's like the intertoto cup or zenith data systems trophy
TeaCider
Well-known member
Which weren't friendly competitions either.
The Nations League being a tertiary competition doesn't make it a series of friendlies, however hard people try to claim it does.
TheYorkshireTerrier
Well-known member
It's not that I like or dislike it, and it's not just me who thinks they are glorified friendlies.
It is treated like playing friendlies because it's replaced what would be games where you try out different players, approaches, tactics etc, as has been evident over the last four games and even the way it's spoke about by players, managers and the media.
Here's a quote from Kevin De Bruyne:
"Two weeks is too long. Well, as a player we can't change that much. I'm not exactly looking forward to it," he admitted.
“The Nations League is unimportant in my eyes. Just glorified friendlies after a long and tough season. I am not looking forward to it.
BoroMart
Well-known member
which is why I called it a minor COMPETITION, not a Minor friendly.
It's competititve but in the absence of friendlies, some nations are treating it as such
viv_andersons_nana
Well-known member
They might not be friendlies in name, but they’re the only chance Southgate and every other international coach has to experiment ahead of a World Cup. Look across the last fortnight as a whole and lots of the major nations have struggled for top form, consistency, results. Germany, Belgium, Italy, France. England were very poor last night and Southgate will take a lot of flak but the real football comes later, and if these games truly did ‘mean something’ then the coaches wouldn’t have been so experimental and relaxed about it.
These Nations League games are probably more important to the teams that don’t qualify for tournaments on a regular basis, bringing a competitive edge to games which allows teams to develop and progress in ways that wouldn’t exist outside of qualification campaigns. England, Germany, Italy et al don’t really need this tournament, if you can call it that, in the way that other nations, like Hungary perhaps, quite do IMO.
As for England, it’d be interesting to see how many of those people hammering Southgate for the past four performances and results were dismissing the Nations League as a concept when England made it to the final four. Those are the people that can’t be pleased either way, let’s be honest.
These Nations League games are probably more important to the teams that don’t qualify for tournaments on a regular basis, bringing a competitive edge to games which allows teams to develop and progress in ways that wouldn’t exist outside of qualification campaigns. England, Germany, Italy et al don’t really need this tournament, if you can call it that, in the way that other nations, like Hungary perhaps, quite do IMO.
As for England, it’d be interesting to see how many of those people hammering Southgate for the past four performances and results were dismissing the Nations League as a concept when England made it to the final four. Those are the people that can’t be pleased either way, let’s be honest.
I agree with a lot of what you said. However, I suspect that people who are "hammering" Southgate for the last four performances DO care about the Nations League. As such they will have been delighted when England made the final four, and won't have been dismissing the concept. (I don't think it's a case of not being pleased either way).
As I said on another thread, one of the most exciting England games that I've been to in recent years, with one of the best atmospheres, was when we beat Croatia 2-1 at Wembley (coming back from 1-0 down). We qualified for the finals in the last 15 minutes. I tried to get tickets for the finals, but they sold out to ESC members with more 'caps' than me.
I actually had a ticket for last night, but didn't go in the end. Some of my mates did go. They were also in Germany last week. It's expensive going to all these games, supporting England, so I think people have a right to show a bit of frustration (and boo / criticise Southgate) when England serve up turgid rubbish.
viv_andersons_nana
Well-known member
I don’t begrudge people showing frustration. But some of that, in my opinion, comes from some sort of entitlement. This isn’t just your mates, England fans, or Boro fans. Paying to follow and support these teams doesn’t guarantee you entertainment, wins, goals. In fact we had some great counter-attacking play on show from Hungary last night… if it’s entertaining you’re looking for.
It’s professional sport at the end of the day. Southgate’s job is to win matches and he’s done that, more than most other England managers in history. That disjointed, laboured performance last night is indicative of nothing more than end-of-season weariness, experimental team selections, players missing, a very well-organised and underrated opposition(in the midst of this backlash, Hungary’s progress under this Italian coach has gone almost completely unmentioned).
Personally I’ve never got the booing. I mean, it *looks* ridiculous. It’s the stuff of children, of pantomime. It doesn’t make players play better. It doesn’t put energy into tired minds and limbs, or confidence into wilting players. It doesn’t bring the opposition out of their shape, open up angles, force mistakes. It’s entirely counterproductive.
This may be a slightly inflammatory thing to say but if you pay £40, £50, £60 plus travel, expenses and time off work to go and see what was essentially a friendly game, and it’s sh*t, then… there’s not a lot anyone can do about that. It’s just the way this sort of football goes, especially when one team is experimenting ahead of a tournament and the other is at full tilt.
If England play like we did last night during the next World Cup then the manager has a lot more questions to answer. But until then, it’s just noise. In my opinion.
Sure, but do you think the players would like it if no one turned up? (You're basically saying "More fool you (me) for paying good money to go and see unimportant games".
Added to which, the FA aren't daft. You have to go to these more minor games, to build up the points to be able to get ESC tickets for the important matches, and tournaments (Euros, WC).
If people are therefore being expected to make the effort to turn up and shell out, (which they are), then the very least you expect to see is decent application on the pitch. The fact is that the team (players) that were picked last night should have been more than good enough to turn Hungary over.
It's no wonder they got booed. The booing was largely at the end. Not really 'pantomime', more likely fans who feel like expressing that what they've been served up is far from good enough.
Zoophonic
Well-known member
Some comments have been to kind on last night's performance. It was a friendly, it was a minor competition, they were tired, injuries and Southgate's own response on the performance - that they were a "young side".
The goodwill earned by a great WC run in 2018 (albeit fortuitous with the draw) and the Euro 2021 campaign has now gone and there can be no excuses for that lacklustre effort last night.
The goodwill earned by a great WC run in 2018 (albeit fortuitous with the draw) and the Euro 2021 campaign has now gone and there can be no excuses for that lacklustre effort last night.
Expat Smoggie
Well-known member
Players for me probably should take a lot of the blame as they were arguably on the beach from game one. Maybe UEFA should have planned these games better as most of the games looked way short on quality and commitment by the players.