Energy Price Cap

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Cornwall insights were predicting £1620

Ofgem announce £1690

Delta is £70. Or £5.8 a month (for a typical household, anyway)

£10/year of the price rises for DD users is to fund cutting the cost of prepay users by £52/year to make it 3% cheaper for vulnerable people

Irrelevant for most people on here with their heads screwed on tbh, if you're not on agile or tracker you're throwing money away, and neither are anywhere near the price cap
 
View attachment 72455
Cornwall insights were predicting £1620

Ofgem announce £1690

Delta is £70. Or £5.8 a month (for a typical household, anyway)

£10/year of the price rises for DD users is to fund cutting the cost of prepay users by £52/year to make it 3% cheaper for vulnerable people

Irrelevant for most people on here with their heads screwed on tbh, if you're not on agile or tracker you're throwing money away, and neither are anywhere near the price cap
I must admit I’ve been a lazy fecker with it and not looked at what I could be on.
Been with Scottish power on their standard online dual fuel since things went a bit daft a couple of years back. Currently paying about £140 on the direct debit and am in a small amount of credit.
Could I stand to save that much?
 
Looks like I was correct on the "Cut your energy bills nearly in half with Octopus Tracker" thread https://fmttmboro.com/index.php?thr...-half-with-octopus-tracker.41946/post-1360102

The price cap is 24.5p for electric (I guessed 25p) and gas 6p, yet US gas futures are now are basically at the lowest level they've been for been for a decade, and back to levels from the 90's! UK futures prices only go back two years but are half the price they were two years ago, which was before the big rise.

Electric futures prices are £58/MWh (less than gas even costs to generate), which is 5.8p per kWh, so why are fixed payers paying 24.5p?

The gas price now, per therm in the uk, is now at a level it reached in 2007, and was pretty much steadily averaging from 2008-2018, yet we're not paying anywhere near those prices, strange.

We were being conned through the energy crisis, but we're being conned much more now, it's ludicrous. The price cap figures could be halved and they would still be making a killing, and companies should be offering more fixed tarrfis now, well below the price cap rates......but they're not.

Seems like it was the energy producers who were making a killing during the "energy crisis", but now it's the turn of the suppliers.
 
Irrelevant for most people on here with their heads screwed on tbh, if you're not on agile or tracker you're throwing money away, and neither are anywhere near the price cap
I'm already with Octopus and registered for the wholesale tracker months ago when the thread on FMTTM started. No follow-up because although I can track my usage on the Octopus app, the 7 year old Ovo smart meter is still sat there and I'll need an Octopus one apparently. Octopus are now the fourth supplier I've had in this house, the third one I've asked for a new smart meter... And nothing. I really do feel as though I'm throwing money away.
 
I'm already with Octopus and registered for the wholesale tracker months ago when the thread on FMTTM started. No follow-up because although I can track my usage on the Octopus app, the 7 year old Ovo smart meter is still sat there and I'll need an Octopus one apparently. Octopus are now the fourth supplier I've had in this house, the third one I've asked for a new smart meter... And nothing. I really do feel as though I'm throwing money away.
Get into octopus via twitter and pester them. Many people I've referred to them have had one swapped out within a couple of weeks. Just keep at them
 
I must admit I’ve been a lazy fecker with it and not looked at what I could be on.
Been with Scottish power on their standard online dual fuel since things went a bit daft a couple of years back. Currently paying about £140 on the direct debit and am in a small amount of credit.
Could I stand to save that much?
Yes, although the best time for you to switch would have been before winter.

Basically you switch to octopus but they will quote you for the standard tariff on their website so it won't sound like a saving. Once you go live, tweet or ring them and ask them to join tracker.

Todays prices for example 16.6p elec 3.97p gas

This shows current price cap and from April

1708688778323.png

So still a good way cheaper

You'll get £50 for joining if you use the link in the thread below - feel free to PM me though if you want walking through it but the last 365 days the tracker has always been a good way cheaper than price cap so it's mad to be on price cap, at least for now

DD is a red herring btw, compare unit rates only (standing charge will be a few £ difference at best). By using dd amount you could be over or under paying

 
So in plain terms should we be on an octopus tracker now? I'm with octopus but not on the tracker.
 
So in plain terms should we be on an octopus tracker now? I'm with octopus but not on the tracker.
Yep, you can come off it with about 8-9 days notice so almost zero risk. You'll start saving money right away

If you have an EV, or battery & solar then probably agile instead of tracker.

you do need a smart meter

As an existing customer just tweet or ring them or there is an online form if you google but have to be logged in when you click it
 
Yep, you can come off it with about 8-9 days notice so almost zero risk. You'll start saving money right away

If you have an EV, or battery & solar then probably agile instead of tracker.

you do need a smart meter

As an existing customer just tweet or ring them or there is an online form if you google but have to be logged in when you click it

Brilliant, thanks. Just requested a smart meter from octopus which is the first step 👍🏻
 
I'm already with Octopus and registered for the wholesale tracker months ago when the thread on FMTTM started. No follow-up because although I can track my usage on the Octopus app, the 7 year old Ovo smart meter is still sat there and I'll need an Octopus one apparently. Octopus are now the fourth supplier I've had in this house, the third one I've asked for a new smart meter... And nothing. I really do feel as though I'm throwing money away.
Btw is your meter sending readings to octopus? If so it should be tracker compatible. When you say ovo smart meter do you mean the lcd display? If so that isn't even used with tracker for most people - the meter is the dull metal box in the meter cupboard rather than the display
 
Yes, although the best time for you to switch would have been before winter.

Basically you switch to octopus but they will quote you for the standard tariff on their website so it won't sound like a saving. Once you go live, tweet or ring them and ask them to join tracker.

Todays prices for example 16.6p elec 3.97p gas

This shows current price cap and from April

View attachment 72486

So still a good way cheaper

You'll get £50 for joining if you use the link in the thread below - feel free to PM me though if you want walking through it but the last 365 days the tracker has always been a good way cheaper than price cap so it's mad to be on price cap, at least for now

DD is a red herring btw, compare unit rates only (standing charge will be a few £ difference at best). By using dd amount you could be over or under paying

Ta I’ll have a look over the weekend
 
Not so.

The suppliers make a profit of £40 on the new typical usage price cap.

I don't believe it, not for one second, unless someone else is taking a much bigger cut before it gets to suppliers. Would love to see a set of those numbers from 3,5,10 years back etc.

For a start 720/1690 is 42%, which implies they're paying ~ 10p wholesale for electric, which isn't true, it's almost half that now already, and will be less over summer. Interestingly it seems that ofgem use the average "futures" price, for the whole of the last quarter, which is completely nuts, the futures price now is half that....and that's for the future! It's probably going to be a lot less at the time, we have a whole spring, summer and autumn to come, and there's zero evidence that next winter should even cost as much as this winter.
Effectively the price cap is being based on 10p wholesale where as they're all locking in 5p wholesale now, so they just made 20% more profit for nothing.

There is no way in hell that the "extras" would be 60% of their listed costs 3,5,10 years back and I'll eat my hat if that's the case now.

If those numbers were true (as well as the rest of the numbers making up the total) Octopus wouldn't even exist, and there certainly wouldn't be a tracker or agile tarriff etc. Obviously there's a hell of a lot of "skimming" going on, but skimming is meant to take an un-noticeable piece, but it's being taken in many areas.

Sure there's been inflation, but most of that has been caused by energy price hikes, so it's like a self feeding feedback loop of cons, they gain more on the way up (based on futures prices), and they gain twice as much on the way down as they don't acknowledge futures prices, and that's if they bring it down. If they don't bring it down or are allowed to bring it down slower they can milk the end users dry, as they have no other alternative, as it's a monopoly, or all the monopoly players are on the same side. They call it a "price cap", yet when the rates were 35p, the energy companies were still getting paid 70p, and the tax payer funded the difference down to 35p (so we were really paying 70p). Now the price cap is 29p, so the energy companies get 29p, no government funding, yet no fixed rates below 29p, strange huh? Also not forgetting it's still that price till April, which means 25p till end of August, lucky them.
 
When will the standing charges come down? I’m aware they doubled because of the loans the government gave out
Hopefully when suppliers have enough of a backup pot of money to help consumers who struggle to afford energy bills.

As of April electricity standing charges are going up by 13% and gas by 6% a day on average. Will vary region by region.
 
I don't believe it, not for one second, unless someone else is taking a much bigger cut before it gets to suppliers. Would love to see a set of those numbers from 3,5,10 years back etc.

For a start 720/1690 is 42%, which implies they're paying ~ 10p wholesale for electric, which isn't true, it's almost half that now already, and will be less over summer. Interestingly it seems that ofgem use the average "futures" price, for the whole of the last quarter, which is completely nuts, the futures price now is half that....and that's for the future! It's probably going to be a lot less at the time, we have a whole spring, summer and autumn to come, and there's zero evidence that next winter should even cost as much as this winter.
Effectively the price cap is being based on 10p wholesale where as they're all locking in 5p wholesale now, so they just made 20% more profit for nothing.

There is no way in hell that the "extras" would be 60% of their listed costs 3,5,10 years back and I'll eat my hat if that's the case now.

If those numbers were true (as well as the rest of the numbers making up the total) Octopus wouldn't even exist, and there certainly wouldn't be a tracker or agile tarriff etc. Obviously there's a hell of a lot of "skimming" going on, but skimming is meant to take an un-noticeable piece, but it's being taken in many areas.

Sure there's been inflation, but most of that has been caused by energy price hikes, so it's like a self feeding feedback loop of cons, they gain more on the way up (based on futures prices), and they gain twice as much on the way down as they don't acknowledge futures prices, and that's if they bring it down. If they don't bring it down or are allowed to bring it down slower they can milk the end users dry, as they have no other alternative, as it's a monopoly, or all the monopoly players are on the same side. They call it a "price cap", yet when the rates were 35p, the energy companies were still getting paid 70p, and the tax payer funded the difference down to 35p (so we were really paying 70p). Now the price cap is 29p, so the energy companies get 29p, no government funding, yet no fixed rates below 29p, strange huh? Also not forgetting it's still that price till April, which means 25p till end of August, lucky them.
It's largely always been the case since price cap - I can tell you from my time at some of the big 6 that the price cap effectively ended profitability for most suppliers as they relied on lazy switchers ending up on svr to subsidise the rest of the business. Since then profits have generally been on volume and surround services - look at octopus - first ever quarterly profit recently, and small. And that's with then having Kraken, which is basically their data / CRM solution which they sell globally, and doing all their gen / installation stuff

The only way beyond the above to make additional money is by being better at hedging and taking risks buying in the daily market - imagine less of that happens now after so many got caught out in the crisis

When I was at npower they wouldn't even compete on price because it was a race to the bottom, which of course it was, but was wild that people would still sign up despite being huge savings elsewhere and customer service not great

£40 doesn't sound great but if you've got 6 million customers...that's £240m profit from supply alone but suppliers have other services too, like boilers, insurance etc

Profits last year will have been to recoup huge losses incurred during the crisis and forward contracts but that's been cut out now although bad debt provision is in there
 
Here is an old breakdown , not to the same level of detail but shows it's not always been hundreds of profit leading into this

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You also have to remember this is price CAP too, many went anywhere near the price cap, so that wasn't pure profit per customer, that had to subsidise the new customer deals too
 
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