Electric cars Depreciation

[Liamo]

We did consider an EV for the Mrs , her daily commute is about 40 miles so would be perfect.
The problem was she drives to her friends in Coventry every now and then and that is 150 miles.
We looked at various models like the Mini, VW and Kia. The range for all seemed okay 230-260 per charge but on one of the websites it said the range of their EV would drop to about 165 Miles for motorway driving.
As its all motorway to Coventry and the Mrs wouldn't want to risk running out of Juice before getting to her friends shes keeping the petrol car for now.

As somebody already pointed out, the range only comes out at 165 miles (actually 160) if driving the whole way at 70 mph and at -10°C. That's just not a realistic scenario. How often do we get temperatures of -10°C in the UK?

Also, you say it's motorway all the way but a) nobody has a motorway going to their front door and b) in my experience of driving in the UK, especially in recent years even on a motorway, you'll almost never be able to drive at a constant 70 mph without ever slowing down, due to traffic, road works, lane restrictions etc.

At a more normal temperature and more normal motorway driving average speeds the highway (motorway) driving range would quite clearly be more than 160 miles, and probably a fair bit closer to the mild weather figures.

 

[Soutra]

As somebody already pointed out, the range only comes out at 165 miles (actually 160) if driving the whole way at 70 mph and at -10°C. That's just not a realistic scenario. How often do we get temperatures of -10°C in the UK?

Also, you say it's motorway all the way but a) nobody has a motorway going to their front door and b) in my experience of driving in the UK, especially in recent years even on a motorway, you'll almost never be able to drive at a constant 70 mph without ever slowing down, due to traffic, road works, lane restrictions etc.

At a more normal temperature and more normal motorway driving average speeds the highway (motorway) driving range would quite clearly be more than 160 miles, and probably a fair bit closer to the mild weather figures.

The range is never what's claimed by any manufacturer. It doesn't need to be -10C to see significant degradation on the claimed numbers.

 

[ThatFragranceGuy]

The range is never what's claimed by any manufacturer. It doesn't need to be -10C to see significant degradation on the claimed numbers.

But in this specific example, its talking about achieved mileage. These are real world figures for the actual car in question. From the discussion above, she would be fine, or have the option of stopping for a couple of minutes to add a few miles if she was worried, but won't because she stresses about everything. So she isn't a typical UK driver as majority of people, when worried about enough in the tank to reach their destination, would stop for a few minutes to add fuel regardless of the type of fuel. That car can accept 142kwh chargers so at an acceptable charger would add 180 miles in 24 minutes.

 

[sweet_left_foot]

That doesn't make sense.

In a simple Keynesian economic model low demand forces prices down.

The lack of demand for privately bought, used early generation cars is an example of this price suppression.

It's the lack of economies of scale that is keeping prices high as adoption is too low to ramp production

 

[SmallTown]

The range is never what's claimed by any manufacturer. It doesn't need to be -10C to see significant degradation on the claimed numbers.

I hate this anti EV argument too: the one that applies to ICE vehicles as well as EV. It's a problem with cars thay somehow gets flipped to be a problem with EV. You never get the stated MPG in an ICE either. Bit somehow it's only a problem now, after 150 years of cars

 

[SmallTown]

This was good too: yesterday we would have used very few fossils fuels to refuel our EV. Not sure what birnkgn Belgium does to the environment though!

 

[Laughing]

I'm not saying they are making the decisions with the fossil fuel lobby only that they are kind of betting that hydrogen wins and to do that they need someone to produce hydrogen and it is the fossil fuel companies that will do that. In the US especially because that's their biggest market.

The single biggest problem with hydrogen isn't using the hydrogen within cars but producing hydrogen in a large enough quantity (and cleanly).

The single biggest problem with hydrogen cars was the amount of hydrogen required to power them, not producing it. I can make hydrogen in my kitchen with a 9v battery a pencil and some water. The process is fairly simple but has, historically, used a lot of electricity. Whether that electric is clean or not is a matter of choice. Dirty hydrogen should be a myth. It's a damn site easier to produce than petrol.

 

[Soutra]

I hate this anti EV argument too: the one that applies to ICE vehicles as well as EV. It's a problem with cars thay somehow gets flipped to be a problem with EV. You never get the stated MPG in an ICE either. Bit somehow it's only a problem now, after 150 years of cars

Yes it's a problem with ICE cars too. But it's still the scale that's important. If your diesel is supposed to do 600 miles and it actually does 500 that's still ok. But if your EV is supposed to do 280 miles but it only does 240 that's not. There are far more journeys of 250 or so miles undertaken than 500.

 

[Liamo]

The range is never what's claimed by any manufacturer. It doesn't need to be -10C to see significant degradation on the claimed numbers.

Except that those figures are not from the manufacturer. As clearly stated, they are real world figures and the cold weather range is indeed based on driving at -10°C (with the heating on) and the highway figures are based on a constant speed of 70 mph. Which as I say, is almost never achievable in my experience (unless you're driving at 2 o'clock in the morning or something).

 

[SmallTown]

Yes it's a problem with ICE cars too. But it's still the scale that's important. If your diesel is supposed to do 600 miles and it actually does 500 that's still ok. But if your EV is supposed to do 280 miles but it only does 240 that's not. There are far more journeys of 250 or so miles undertaken than 500.

That's madness isn't it: you're using an example where the ICE car comes off worse in terms of incorrect reproting and you're arguing its an EV problem.

Man it's so hard to improve attitudes to EV. I get that some people are scared of the change but I genuinely don't understand why people make such desperate mental calculations to try and "prove" their point. I know big oil and the media are exacerbating the problem by spreading misinformation but I'm always amazed when the general public try so hard to help them.

 

[SmallTown]

The single biggest problem with hydrogen cars was the amount of hydrogen required to power them, not producing it. I can make hydrogen in my kitchen with a 9v battery a pencil and some water. The process is fairly simple but has, historically, used a lot of electricity. Whether that electric is clean or not is a matter of choice. Dirty hydrogen should be a myth. It's a damn site easier to produce than petrol.

Why is dirty hydrogen so common then? As I understand it about 98% of all commercial hydrogen is from fossil feuls

 

[Laughing]

Why is dirty hydrogen so common then? As I understand it about 98% of all commercial hydrogen is from fossil feuls

It is but that is by choice. We can generate clean electricity to create hydrogen. The green hydrogen market is expanding much much quicker than wind or solar ever have. 30 countries around the world have committed to green hydrogen. Look up the aman project as a starting point. I recall it produces 1.7 million tonnes of hydrogen per year using electrolysis of water. Doesn't sound like a lot but hydrogen has an atomic mass of 1.

I think in 2020 only 0.04%of hydrogen was green, that has increased by 100 fold. China has committed to grey hydrogen and whilst that isn't great, they are the biggest hydrogen users on earth.

As I said dirty hydrogen is a choice.

 

[SmallTown]

It is but that is by choice. We can generate clean electricity to create hydrogen. The green hydrogen market is expanding much much quicker than wind or solar ever have. 30 countries around the world have committed to green hydrogen. Look up the aman project as a starting point. I recall it produces 1.7 million tonnes of hydrogen per year using electrolysis of water. Doesn't sound like a lot but hydrogen has an atomic mass of 1.

I think in 2020 only 0.04%of hydrogen was green, that has increased by 100 fold. China has committed to grey hydrogen and whilst that isn't great, they are the biggest hydrogen users on earth.

As I said dirty hydrogen is a choice.

I suspected as much. It seems it's why hydrogen us being pushed despite its flaws compared to EV. The oil and gas industry and commoditise it

 

[Laughing]

I suspected as much. It seems it's why hydrogen us being pushed despite its flaws compared to EV. The oil and gas industry and commoditise it

They may, however that opinion ignores the damage that ev's and cars, more generally, do to the planet.

There isn't a green car nor will there ever be. Hopefully autonomous cheap cabs end car ownership. Except me, of course.

 

[Redpete]

you say it's motorway all the way but a) nobody has a motorway going to their front door and b) in my experience of driving in the UK, especially in recent years even on a motorway, you'll almost never be able to drive at a constant 70 mph without ever slowing down, due to traffic, road works, lane restrictions etc.

Apart from a couple of miles either end it Motorway or dual carriageway, so about 95%
I am only quoting figures from MG 'S own website and it says it would do 160 miles at motorway speeds.

As I said it usually takes us just over 2 hours driving at motorway speeds I haven't worked out the exact average speed but its got too be close to 70mph.

At the end of the day your not going to buy something that might not do what you want it too do.

To be honest I dont know why you have to be so pedantic.

 

[SmallTown]

They may, however that opinion ignores the damage that ev's and cars, more generally, do to the planet.

There isn't a green car nor will there ever be. Hopefully autonomous cheap cabs end car ownership. Except me, of course.

Agreed. Cars in general are a bad thing. Although also brilliant. I might get a TVR! But whilst we are so married to cars EV are the best we can do at the moment

 

[SmallTown]

Apart from a couple of miles either end it Motorway or dual carriageway, so about 95%
I am only quoting figures from MG 'S own website and it says it would do 160 miles at motorway speeds.

As I said it usually takes us just over 2 hours driving at motorway speeds I haven't worked out the exact average speed but its got too be close to 70mph.

At the end of the day your not going to buy something that might not do what you want it too do.

To be honest I dont know why you have to be so pedantic.

It's just to emphasise the point that anti ev agreements always use extremes I guess. "Oh but on average journey at 70 mph...." is talking about something that is literally mathematically impossible in the UK without breaking the law. So it's not a great argument against something

 

[Redpete]

"Oh but on average journey at 70 mph...." is talking about something that is literally mathematically impossible in the UK without breaking the law. So it's not a great argument against something

We all know if you set your cruise control at 70 on a motorway you will be overtaken by more cars then you overtake.

Again your just been pedantic.

I am not anti EV I really wanted the Mrs to get one as I have said many times it would be perfect for her daily commute but the ones in our price range would not be suitable for her when she visits her friends.


We will reconsider in the future when hopefully the range and infrastructure has improved.

But then I suppose that's the crux, why buy an EV now when there are clear issues.

 

[JustTheGent]

With regards to Toyota, they've always made different types of vehicles for specific markets. You'd have to imagine it would be really easy for them to introduce various EV models. So they must have good reasons for not doing so. They've let the likes of General Motors and Hyundai play their hand with EVs. Companies who have a reputation for getting things wrong.

 

[SmallTown]

We all know if you set your cruise control at 70 on a motorway you will be overtaken by more cars then you overtake.

Again your just been pedantic.

I am not anti EV I really wanted the Mrs to get one as I have said many times it would be perfect for her daily commute but the ones in our price range would not be suitable for her when she visits her friends.


We will reconsider in the future when hopefully the range and infrastructure has improved.

But then I suppose that's the crux, why buy an EV now when there are clear issues.

If I was being pedantic I'd point out it was "you're"

And I'm sorry but it is a fact that your journey won't average 70 mph.

So you say there are "clear issues" can you say what these are please. I have a feeling any "issues" are over stated, exaggerated, the same as ICE vehicles or plain incorrect. I'd be interested to know what issues you think there are and see if you are correct