Dover Ferries : Long Delays

exiledinboro said:
No we voted to leave but had not chosen to leave the SM/CU at that point

It is 100% the conservative voters who voted for a hard brexit and Johnsons deal who are responsible

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It was stated at the time that the UK couldn’t cherry pick which bits they wanted to be in. Anyone voting leave knew exactly the avenue they were going down and what the consequences would be. There is no “spite”, “making us pay” or any of the other clichĂ© Brexiteers are spouting, it’s just the realisation that the UK doesn’t have an empire anymore and that it’s biggest export is blowing sunshine up it’s own arze!
 
BoroMart said:
I've lived in Ashford for 20 years. Since brexit it has been far far worse. Project Brock is a regular occurrence since brexit, we have a fuqin great big lorry park and yet we still have lorries at the side of the roads in the industrial estates because it's full. In the last 2 years we've had tailbacks from Dover to Maidstone on at least 4 occasions and they don't clear for a week. You can kid yourself that this used to happen before, but the reality as a resident of Ashford, is that it didn't, not to these levels or anywhere near it.

I also used to work for HMRC and saw what a mess it was trying to sort out CHIEF, they've done that, but it simply wasn't ever going to simplify a complex problem to the levels that the MPs claimed at the time. The infrastructure in dover and at the tunnel wasn't designed for the workload required as a non-EU member, the road systems creek as the queues build and the workarounds are inadequate.

Brexit has messed up this little part of the world.
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I might well have passed you in Sainbury’s or Waitrose as we stop off there all the time to and from work.
If you look on Rightmove ( other apps are available) it looked very recently as if the entire village of Sellindge was for sale. The diversion took us that way the other night, once rural roads now a truckers rat run!!
 
exiledinboro said:
I didn’t vote for brexit and have always voted Labour

But regardless of my personal voting history that doesn’t change the FACT that Johnson offered a hard brexit whereas no other party did

I don’t understand why you are arguing against this fact
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Interesting you say "we" voted leave but single out people for voting Tory. The simple, inalienable fact is that if brexit hadn't been voted for we wouldn't have had third party customers checks on the French border. Yes or no?
 
exiledinboro said:
Again, we didn’t vote to leave the SM/CU in 2016

You’re confusing the ‘cherry picking’ argument where we thought we could request a ‘bespoke’ deal to the deals we were offered which included the Swiss deal or Norway and kept us with FOM

And again it was not until 2019 when the Tories decided they and their voters could opt for a hard brexit

The Tory voters voted for border checks - and had 3 years to reconsider the referendum result

I voted Labour which offered a soft Brexit and wouldn’t have meaning we left the SM/CU

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Your right, but unfortunately it was a small minority of the Brexit voters who thought this way.
 
exiledinboro said:
Again it was the Conservative voters

Who did you vote?
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It wasn't. All sides of the political spectrum voted for brexit. And the main reason for voting brexit was controlled immigration. So they got what the wanted. Shame the rest of us have to suffer because of their bigotry
 
Leaving the EU but staying in the single market wasn't an option put to voters at the point of the referendum. Some leave campaigners said we would leave the single market, others said we wouldn't.

Anyone concerned about leaving the single market had an option to ensure that didn't happen and that was to vote remain.

Anyone really worried about leaving the single market surely shouldn't have voted to leave as it was very clearly a possible, if not actually a very likely, outcome of brexit.

I don't know how anyone who voted brexit can complain about it now. You either weren't that bothered about it at the time or you weren't paying enough attention.

And if it's the latter you shouldn't really have been voting because you've ended up forcing the situation on those of us who were paying attention and were rightly very concerned about it at the time.
 
The "you got what you voted for" is unhelpful and disingenuous.

I know many Brexit voters who did vote for this, but I also know many who voted for it because they hoped Corbyn would be able to fully enact a Lexit manifesto, or because of TTIP, or they didn't like the direction of travel into a federalist Europe.

At the time of the vote the likes of Farage and Hannan claimed "nobody is threatening our place in the single market" and "why can't we be like Norway".

What then happened was a bait and switch, the vote happened and the Tories and the two above then insisted we leave everything associated with the EU and the country endorsed it when they voted for Boris Johnson knowing full well what he was planning to do.

I blame 2019 Tory voters significantly more than Brexit voters, they did know what they were voting for.
 
InglebyUTB said:
The "you got what you voted for" is unhelpful and disingenuous.

I know many Brexit voters who did vote for this, but I also know many who voted for it because they hoped Corbyn would be able to fully enact a Lexit manifesto, or because of TTIP, or they didn't like the direction of travel into a federalist Europe.

At the time of the vote the likes of Farage and Hannan claimed "nobody is threatening our place in the single market" and "why can't we be like Norway".

What then happened was a bait and switch, the vote happened and the Tories and the two above then insisted we leave everything associated with the EU and the country endorsed it when they voted for Boris Johnson knowing full well what he was planning to do.

I blame 2019 Tory voters significantly more than Brexit voters, they did know what they were voting for.
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It really really isn’t, the majority of brexitists voted along the lines of controlling immigration. So yes, it’s entirely brexitists fault when controlled immigration causes damage. It’s an insane country we live in now where Teo people on here, can acknowledge brexit is causing damage, yet can’t bring themselves to blame the people who asked for it. What a crazy country
 
SmallTown said:
It really really isn’t, the majority of brexitists voted along the lines of controlling immigration. So yes, it’s entirely brexitists fault when controlled immigration causes damage. It’s an insane country we live in now where Teo people on here, can acknowledge brexit is causing damage, yet can’t bring themselves to blame the people who asked for it. What a crazy country
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No YOU believe that's the reason so you can place people into the box you've appropriately labelled,

I'm sure if you to look at the reasons why people voted leave, immigration is probably the main one people had. But how much it was the motivating factor is exaggerated by some remain voters so they can call people who voted leave thick racists.

The problem with the Brexit referendum was Brexit could be whatever you wanted it to be in your head, it could be to control immigration, it could be to nationalise industries with complying with EU rules, it could be that they don't want to be part of EU bailouts, or it could have just been people throwing a brick through the window of the political establishment.

But 2019 it was crystal clear what Brexit was, which is why the likes of Farage and Rees Mogg who'd previously stated they were open to a 2nd or confirmation referendum were now fully against the idea as Remain would have won now it was clear people were voting for a hard Brexit.
 
InglebyUTB said:
The "you got what you voted for" is unhelpful and disingenuous.

I know many Brexit voters who did vote for this, but I also know many who voted for it because they hoped Corbyn would be able to fully enact a Lexit manifesto, or because of TTIP, or they didn't like the direction of travel into a federalist Europe.

At the time of the vote the likes of Farage and Hannan claimed "nobody is threatening our place in the single market" and "why can't we be like Norway".

What then happened was a bait and switch, the vote happened and the Tories and the two above then insisted we leave everything associated with the EU and the country endorsed it when they voted for Boris Johnson knowing full well what he was planning to do.

I blame 2019 Tory voters significantly more than Brexit voters, they did know what they were voting for.
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Behave yourself, 99.9% of those voting for Brexit wouldn’t have the foggiest idea what TTIP was. if they did then to vote to become the 51st state of the USA is even more barmy.
 
Norman_Conquest said:
What I am saying and I am sure you would agree, is that during the first school holiday weekend there was always large queues of families trying to get through the tunnel. This part isn’t something new and solely down to Brexit.
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Agreed that there are tourists, at this time of year, travelling through kent into the pinch point of dover and the tunnel. Brexit has simply exacerbated these times and made some other times equal to those previous difficult points.

The infrastructure isn't there to handle the adoption of a set of complex procedures to enter the EU. Brexit has reduced the throughput, meaning any demand peaks or capacity issues (strikes, weather, HR/covid issues etc) bring the whole thing to calamitous halt.
 
festa5 said:
Leaving the EU but staying in the single market wasn't an option put to voters at the point of the referendum. Some leave campaigners said we would leave the single market, others said we wouldn't.

Anyone concerned about leaving the single market had an option to ensure that didn't happen and that was to vote remain.
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sadly the lack of honesty and integrity from the Leave campaign meant they promised brexiteers they would leave the SM/CU while at the same time saying that "no one is talking about leaving the SM/CU". This allowed brexiteers to believe what aligned with their other desires, such as blocking middle eastern and turkish people from living here.
 
InglebyUTB said:
No YOU believe that's the reason so you can place people into the box you've appropriately labelled,

I'm sure if you to look at the reasons why people voted leave, immigration is probably the main one people had. But how much it was the motivating factor is exaggerated by some remain voters so they can call people who voted leave thick racists.

The problem with the Brexit referendum was Brexit could be whatever you wanted it to be in your head, it could be to control immigration, it could be to nationalise industries with complying with EU rules, it could be that they don't want to be part of EU bailouts, or it could have just been people throwing a brick through the window of the political establishment.

But 2019 it was crystal clear what Brexit was, which is why the likes of Farage and Rees Mogg who'd previously stated they were open to a 2nd or confirmation referendum were now fully against the idea as Remain would have won now it was clear people were voting for a hard Brexit.
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Actually no. Immigration was the reason. It was the main focus of the campaign. It has been the main seeking point now. Most people when asked why they voted for brexit said immigration
 
Why does everyone assert that the know everyone's motives for voting for brexit. I could say that everyone who voted remain did it just for financial reasons and greed. I want what we have right now so that we get real political change. Anarchy, devolution, proportional representation.

Using phrases like 'gammons' are just as bad as sullying positive words and phrases such as 'woke'. This mess will be temporary and is the reason I'm on holiday in Cornwall.
 
BoroMart said:
sadly the lack of honesty and integrity from the Leave campaign meant they promised brexiteers they would leave the SM/CU while at the same time saying that "no one is talking about leaving the SM/CU". This allowed brexiteers to believe what aligned with their other desires, such as blocking middle eastern and turkish people from living here.
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Well exactly. And if they were paying attention they'd have noticed all the contradictions.

So they either weren't paying attention and didn't notice or they did and just didn't care.

It's a complete nonsense for any of them to say "I knew what I voted for" then complain about brexit not being what they wanted.

I'm sure they knew what they THOUGHT they were voting for. But that is not the same thing. And it was pointed out by a lot of people at the time.
 
festa5 said:
Well exactly. And if they were paying attention they'd have noticed all the contradictions.

So they either weren't paying attention and didn't notice or they did and just didn't care.

It's a complete nonsense for any of them to say "I knew what I voted for" then complain about brexit not being what they wanted.

I'm sure they knew what they THOUGHT they were voting for. But that is not the same thing. And it was pointed out by a lot of people at the time.
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Many voted to stop more Johnny Foreigners entering the country and certainly did not want other countries to control their borders in the same way.
 
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