Don't Get People Not Getting Vaccinated

Stellify

New member
I responded to your first post which only mentioned deaths. You should be ashamed for giving a misleading impression about deaths of vaccinated people.

As far as transmission, from Table 4, the unvaccinated case rate is 1165 cases per 100,000 people. The double vaccinated case rate is 808 cases per 100,000.
Nothing I said was misleading...

Interesting how you picked only one age rage for the case rate. The 50-80 year olds who are double jabbed have a higher case rate, that's the age group we are trying to protect. Very strange you are so defensive. The numbers are there. It prevents deaths, massively. That's all it does, looking at the data.
 

bear66

Well-known member
Nothing I said was misleading...

Interesting how you picked only one age rage for the case rate. The 50-80 year olds who are double jabbed have a higher case rate, that's the age group we are trying to protect. Very strange you are so defensive. The numbers are there. It prevents deaths, massively. That's all it does, looking at the data.
I didn't pick one age group. I calculated the TOTAL prevalevce of cases in vaccinated and unvaccinated people.
 

Stellify

New member
In which case, using the 18's sways it massively. There is no control group as the jab rate is so low. But fair enough.
 

bear66

Well-known member
In which case, using the 18's sways it massively. There is no control group as the jab rate is so low. But fair enough.
It doesn't sway it massively. If you take out the Under 18s, from Table 4, the unvaccinated case rate is 1132 cases per 100,000 people. The double vaccinated case rate is 810 cases per 100,000

Vaccination is good because it reduces the overall transmission in the community.

Vaccination is good because hospitalisations are significantly reduced.

Vaccination is good because deaths are significantly reduced.
 
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ThirdLeg

Well-known member
Will we have one of these threads every week until the end of time? Everyone making the same points. Round and round. Maybe you’re all accounts belonging to rob, searching for that sweet covid thread ad revenue
 
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indeedido

Well-known member
It doesn't sway it massively. If you take out the Under 18s, from Table 4, the unvaccinated case rate is 1132 cases per 100,000 people. The double vaccinated case rate is 810 cases per 100,000

Vaccination is good because it reduces the overall transmission in the community.

Vaccination is good because hospitalisations are significantly reduced.

Vaccination is good because deaths are significantly reduced.
Anyone with an open mind and some intelligence reading this thread would reach only one conclusion.
Some excellent and very well constructed posts. Great thread.
 

Redwurzel

Well-known member
Someone asks a question in the opening thread - I make an honest comment to try to be helpful and its feels like the dogs are let loose. Eventually the posts will completely dry up. I can understand posters having a difference of opinion but some humility would be nice. I actually support the vaccine programme and was double vaccinated as soon as it was possible to get done.
 

red_harrington

Well-known member
Unless it's for medical reason, I don't get it, we all have kids vaccinated for all other diseases and don't think twice, so why are so many adults against getting themselves jabbed

A friend of my missus has refused the vaccine.

Her reason is because her mother had a bad reaction to her vaccination.

She reckons that because they're genetically very close, she may have a bad reaction too.

Add to the fact that she believes she's already had the virus, then she will already have antibodies to protect her.

So she reckons it's not worth the bother and/or risk.

I can see her point, and I'm a staunchly pro-vaccine.
 

steve0

Member
My mate won't get vaccinated. He isn't one that thinks it's a plot or something to help Bill Gates. He worries that as it hasn't been tested for the usual amount of time we don't know the long term effects.
I asked him what he was worried about most. He thought for a while and said "they don't know how it will effect my fertility " His youngest child of 3 children is 40.
He's 66 😲.
🤣
 

FabioPorkpie

Well-known member
A couple of guys I work with refuse to get vaccinated. They also put a lot of time snd energy into telling other people not to wear masks, not to get vaccinated etc.

The reason for this is nothing more complex than the fact they are actually just utter arzeholes and completely thick as ****.
 

Randy

Well-known member
Someone asks a question in the opening thread - I make an honest comment to try to be helpful and its feels like the dogs are let loose. Eventually the posts will completely dry up. I can understand posters having a difference of opinion but some humility would be nice. I actually support the vaccine programme and was double vaccinated as soon as it was possible to get done.
Wouldn't bother Red.
I've avoided the covid threads this week and mentally felt much better for it until reading this one.
Nothing @Stellify has posted is outrageous (or the favourite buZzwOrd of this forum "antivaxxxx").
 

Osboro

Well-known member
Its not just about YOU.
Yes, with a vaccine you are more able to deal with the virus.
Without the virus you are less able, you may suffer minor discomfort or serious illness but you might Survive
But,its not just about you!
Each unvaccinated individual is a potential petri dish in which the vaccine could mutate. To something far more infectious, deadly and resistant to existing vaccine.
Vaccination reduces the petri dishes available for the virus to do what it will always naturally do, mutate.
By refusing vaccination you are increasing the danger to everyone.
 

zzzzz

Well-known member
By refusing vaccination you are increasing the danger to everyone.
And not least increasing the strain on the NHS significantly so divereting resources away from cancer treatments etc.
Latest estimates are that the vaccine has prevented 100k deaths. Yes, 100,000 people are still alive today that would be dead without the vacine.
Thats without the 100000s that would have needed ICU care.
The NHS would simply have crashed crashed crashed.
 

ConcourseColin

New member
I am 'double jabbed' in a good state of health and still many many years from retirement but I will not be stepping forward for a booster jab.
Reason being: I have had nothing but ill health since I had my jabs and even contracted a really severe dose of COVID which I am now informed off my GP is classed as long COVID as I am still fcukd from.
For the record I was totally in favour of the vaccine roll out but my experiences have totally changed my mentality towards it.
 

zzzzz

Well-known member
I am 'double jabbed' in a good state of health and still many many years from retirement but I will not be stepping forward for a booster jab.
Reason being: I have had nothing but ill health since I had my jabs and even contracted a really severe dose of COVID which I am now informed off my GP is classed as long COVID as I am still fcukd from.
For the record I was totally in favour of the vaccine roll out but my experiences have totally changed my mentality towards it.
Sorry to hear you are ill Colin.
And absoultely fair enough Colin on your decision. Nothing in this life is 100% certain except for death so there are bound to be exceptions to the success of the jab even it's a tiny handful. To take that even further to the extreme the job has led to clotting and tragically killed some people.

Just wondering how bad you think you'd have been if you hadn't had the jab?
 

ConcourseColin

New member
Sorry to hear you are ill Colin.
And absoultely fair enough Colin on your decision. Nothing in this life is 100% certain except for death so there are bound to be exceptions to the success of the jab even it's a tiny handful. To take that even further to the extreme the job has led to clotting and tragically killed some people.

Just wondering how bad you think you'd have been if you hadn't had the jab?
To be honest I will never know how bad I would have been without the jab but I was also nigh on bed bound for 10 days after each jab!
I am a firm believer that people should make their own decisions and i feel i may have made a mistake in rushing into getting the jab.
For a bit of context, I suffer no allergies, my wife and eldest are both jabbed up with no issues, my brother, sister, parents & grandparents all jabbed with no issues so maybe I am just in the unlucky percentage that have issues with the vaccine.
 

zzzzz

Well-known member
To be honest I will never know how bad I would have been without the jab but I was also nigh on bed bound for 10 days after each jab!
I am a firm believer that people should make their own decisions and i feel i may have made a mistake in rushing into getting the jab.
For a bit of context, I suffer no allergies, my wife and eldest are both jabbed up with no issues, my brother, sister, parents & grandparents all jabbed with no issues so maybe I am just in the unlucky percentage that have issues with the vaccine.
Fully respect your choice and decision and despite me being a very vocal, almost evangelistic, supporter of the jab I'd probably do exactly the same given your circumstances.

Thanks for sharing bacause I never considered that people could have such an adverse reaction as to make them so ill. I'd heard of the blood clotting and I got mild flu type symptions after my 1st jab but I've never heard of a reaction like yours.

Hope it clears up soon for you Colin.
 

changingman

Well-known member
The thing is, for every one drug that's mentioned as bad (from the 50's), there's 100 that are good, and a 1000 since that have been even better. The "bad" 1 might injure or even kill 100 (yet still probably saves 10x that), the 100 good might save or help 1 million (with little side effects), the extra thousand might save 100 million (with barely any side effects). All of the "bad" ones, mean we have become more regulated and learnt more from previous mistakes, so previous failings, realisations and corrections, are probably more a reason to trust medical science now. It's the same for technology, cars, computers, phones etc, things start off ok, then get good, then great, and then ridiculous.

They need to look at it relatively and compare it to the alternative. There is no alternative where they choose not to get vaccinated, then go to the pub every Friday and Saturday and don't get exposed to covid. It's a vaccine reducing risk by 95% for most adults, or they face a risk 20x more by not getting vaccinated.

Those making, regulating, approving and carrying out the vaccine injections understand more than those saying "we don't understand them", in reality, those not having them, are the only ones that don't understand them, and certainly don't know how to compare relative risks of vaccination and covid, never mind factoring in for reciprocal and economical benefits from having this under control faster.

We might have been at 0.1% of possible knowledge in the 1900's, then 1% in 1950, now we might be at 50% and in 30 years that may be 90%.
Comparative risk in 1900 might have been 50%, then in 1950 20%, now 1% and in 2050 0.1%.
Either way, comparing now, to limited issues 70 years ago, and using that as a reason to not do something now doesn't make any sense, never mind factoring in now that things are more regulated and better known than at any point in history.
The probability of errors is not massive, it's tiny, and even less compared to what it's saving, and the probability of errors, will only decrease.

There is no time to wait 20 years to realise the short, mid, and long term effects of vaccination are safer, as by then 100 million could have died, and we already know covid kills 1% without treatment/ vaccines, and that's without healthcare overwhelmed.

You don't not put on a parachute, because there's a better model parachute coming out in 20 years, or you don't wait 10 years to see if that first one would have worked when every skydiver is telling you to just use it.
This is just about one of the best anti-vax repudiations I've read, couldn't have put it better.

I do wonder how much Gove's "experts" speech could be equally applicable to Covid also? The imbalance of weighting (some) people apply to opinion versus evidence is staggering in my opinion, and could lead to very dangerous outcomes in many different functions of daily life.

As for ending friendships - 100%, it's quite often events like this (see also Brexit) which act as a handy pointer to someone's true motivations or mental capacity and speed the process along :)
 

Andy_W

Well-known member
This is just about one of the best anti-vax repudiations I've read, couldn't have put it better.

I do wonder how much Gove's "experts" speech could be equally applicable to Covid also? The imbalance of weighting (some) people apply to opinion versus evidence is staggering in my opinion, and could lead to very dangerous outcomes in many different functions of daily life.

As for ending friendships - 100%, it's quite often events like this (see also Brexit) which act as a handy pointer to someone's true motivations or mental capacity and speed the process along :)
Thank you :)

I didn't expect to get many, if any anti-vax responses, possibly as they didn't understand what I've written regarding percentages of vaccine knowledge advancements and success, or they did understand it, but can't argue against it, so they go quiet and hope it goes away. If it's understood, it's undeniable.

Totally agree on Gove, we've had the Brexit lot spouting "we don't need experts" for the previous 4 years, which probably hasn't helped, but I'm not sure whether I would rather that be the reason, or whether it would be more so the other reasons?

There is a massive issue with weighting mind, and how peoples opinions are used, ignored or considered equal. Some random labourer might look at his mate labourer and value his anti-vax opinion more than some pro-vax maths nerd. Neither would likely be an expert on virus', but I bet if you surveyed 100 of each, the latter would have a better grasp of it, given the same information. The thing is the latter would also likely say, just listen to the experts, where the former is basically saying ignore the experts, it's crazy.

*Before anyone pipes up, I'm not saying all labourers are thick/ anti-vax, and not all maths guys are nerds and pro-vax, it's an example*


The funny thing is, these anti-vaxers likely wouldn't ignore the GP, Surgeon or Nurse if they need their leg amputated, or if their missus was having a baby or whatever, but they're selective about this, it's strange, but no doubt fuelled by conspiracy nuts and propaganda.

I think as I've got older I've become less tolerant of the fools or people you dislike or disagree with, and just dedicate more time to family and people you do like etc. I wouldn't lose any sleep not staying in contact with a brexit anti-vaxer, that friendship is pretty much doomed anyway, albeit there's probably been limited chosen contact anyway, like people who I just see on social media, yet no longer see in real life.
 
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