Don't Get People Not Getting Vaccinated

borgelite

Active member
Unless it's for medical reason, I don't get it, we all have kids vaccinated for all other diseases and don't think twice, so why are so many adults against getting themselves jabbed
 

DanJC

Active member
I am medically exempt as you have mentioned, but never have I thought myself important enough to dictate what injections people have. Would I accept the consequences if someone had an adverse reaction to any injection? Certainly not, so i'll keep my nose out of what is not my business.
 

Blf

Well-known member
My mate won't get vaccinated. He isn't one that thinks it's a plot or something to help Bill Gates. He worries that as it hasn't been tested for the usual amount of time we don't know the long term effects.
I asked him what he was worried about most. He thought for a while and said "they don't know how it will effect my fertility " His youngest child of 3 children is 40.
He's 66 😲.
 

Frozen Horse

Well-known member
One of the fears I hear quite often is "how did they possibly produce it so quickly?".

My thoughts on this are that 95% of the work was done on the day they started researching the vaccine.
I don't mean that it was part of some conspiracy, or that someone was already working on a vaccine to a biological weapon they had also created.

No.

We know loads about viruses and vaccines already. We have been studying them for decades. Coronavirus is not some alien species, completely different to anything we've ever seen before. We did not need to build a virus from ground zero; we simply had to adapt our wealth of existing knowledge to the particulars of the new virus.

This is a gross misuse of the word "simply" I know. I don't want anyone turning rounds and saying "why didn't they get it done sooner, then? It is still highly complex work. And of course the 95% figure is entirely arbitrary. My point remains the same: it's a new virus, but it's not entirely different from those for which we previous had vaccines.
 

Ingleby_Flash

Well-known member
One of the fears I hear quite often is "how did they possibly produce it so quickly?".

My thoughts on this are that 95% of the work was done on the day they started researching the vaccine.
I don't mean that it was part of some conspiracy, or that someone was already working on a vaccine to a biological weapon they had also created.

No.

We know loads about viruses and vaccines already. We have been studying them for decades. Coronavirus is not some alien species, completely different to anything we've ever seen before. We did not need to build a virus from ground zero; we simply had to adapt our wealth of existing knowledge to the particulars of the new virus.

This is a gross misuse of the word "simply" I know. I don't want anyone turning rounds and saying "why didn't they get it done sooner, then? It is still highly complex work. And of course the 95% figure is entirely arbitrary. My point remains the same: it's a new virus, but it's not entirely different from those for which we previous had vaccines.
They create a ‘new’ flu jab every year, no one asks if it’s tested properly or whether it’s Pfizer or AZ or Tioxide 🤷
 

Liamo

Well-known member
My thoughts on this are that 95% of the work was done on the day they started researching the vaccine.
In many ways, that's probably about right.

I've mentioned this before but the Oxford University-AstraZeneca vaccine developers reckon to have shaved around ten years off the normal vaccine development lead time by having already researched, designed and tested a vaccine platform for a "disease X" precisely in order to be able to quickly produce a vaccine for a newly-emerging virus such as this.

They explain this (and other ways in which the whole process was made more efficient and less time-consuming) in the video below.

 

Liamo

Well-known member
My mate won't get vaccinated. He isn't one that thinks it's a plot or something to help Bill Gates. He worries that as it hasn't been tested for the usual amount of time we don't know the long term effects.
I asked him what he was worried about most. He thought for a while and said "they don't know how it will effect my fertility " His youngest child of 3 children is 40.
He's 66 😲.
Not sure if it'll help, but you might like to mention to him that:

1. The vaccine was tested for the normal amount of time - which is the time it takes for enough of the clinical trial participants to become infected, that a statistically-reliable analysis of efficacy and safety can be done.

(The total development lead time was shorter than most vaccines in the past but there are multiple, very good and logical reasons for that, as mentioned in the video posted above).

2. No vaccine has ever been shown to have long term side effects and there's no medical or logical reason why these ones should either. As stated in the link below:

Of all the vaccines we use, in infancy, childhood, adolescence, and adulthood, none of them have any long-term effects," Schaffner said.

"No vaccine has shown side effects 2 to 5 years later. That doesn't exist because there's no biological reason for it."

Is Old Vaccine Technology the Key to Hesitancy?

3. Studies have shown no evidence of any effect on fertility from the vaccine.

Here's one example:

Sperm Parameters Before and After COVID-19 mRNA Vaccination

As stated in the article, the participants actually showed an average increase in sperm volume and motility after vaccination, although they then point out that:

While these results showed statistically significant increases in all sperm parameters, the magnitude of change is within normal individual variation and may be influenced by regression to the mean.
 
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jonny_greenings_sock

Well-known member
One of the fears I hear quite often is "how did they possibly produce it so quickly?".

My thoughts on this are that 95% of the work was done on the day they started researching the vaccine.
I don't mean that it was part of some conspiracy, or that someone was already working on a vaccine to a biological weapon they had also created.

No.

We know loads about viruses and vaccines already. We have been studying them for decades. Coronavirus is not some alien species, completely different to anything we've ever seen before. We did not need to build a virus from ground zero; we simply had to adapt our wealth of existing knowledge to the particulars of the new virus.

This is a gross misuse of the word "simply" I know. I don't want anyone turning rounds and saying "why didn't they get it done sooner, then? It is still highly complex work. And of course the 95% figure is entirely arbitrary. My point remains the same: it's a new virus, but it's not entirely different from those for which we previous had vaccines.
Yeah, exactly. In very layman’s terms it’s just the SARS vaccine tweaked a bit, they’re the same virus more or less.

I honestly respect anyone’s right to choose, it’s a personal decision, but COVID vaccine hesitancy is 99% social media disinformation bull****.

I hope they’re consistent with it, and demand to watch a bunch of YouTubers, check out some WhatsApp memes and “do their research” before taking any treatment at any doctors or hospital, from paracetamol to being defibrillated for a heart attack. If they don’t, then I lose all respect.
 

Liamo

Well-known member
Yeah, exactly. In very layman’s terms it’s just the SARS vaccine tweaked a bit, they’re the same virus more or less.
Well, some of the vaccines are based on a previous SARS candidate vaccine (some of the Chinese ones, for instance) but the Oxford-AstraZeneca product is essentially a modified version of their MERS vaccine - which was already undergoing human trials in Saudi Arabia even before CoVid-19 came along.

New MERS vaccine clinical trial starts in Saudi Arabia
 

The_Lizards_Jumpers

Well-known member
Medicine development is a long drawn out bureaucratic process, however in the case of a worldwide pandemic a lot of this paper pushing was dealt with on a priority basis,

There's so much factual information about the time to market for the vaccines (including above) available on line, much of it produced by scientists and people close to vaccine development, but equally there's some fruitcake in his mams basement in Nebraska who posts Youtube videos, and it seems like Karen from Nunthorpe or Pete from Park End would rather believe the latter.

Probably the same people who believe there's a cure for cancer just sitting in a vault in Switzerland, but the pharma companies wont release it for fear of impacting profits.
 

zzzzz

Well-known member
We have a couple in their late 70s down the road who have refused the jab and are quite vociferous about it. It's almost become a religion to them.
I really don't wish it on them at all but they mix freely without masks despite many of us trying our best, I just think it's a matter of time.
One would be so lost without the other, childhood sweethearts.
I think once some people dig their heels in they get past the point where they feel they can't 'accept defeat' in their eyes and they become living testament to their beliefs.
So tragic.
 

The_Big_Woodowski

Active member
Medicine development is a long drawn out bureaucratic process, however in the case of a worldwide pandemic a lot of this paper pushing was dealt with on a priority basis,
I saw a programme (can't remember the name) but detailed much of what was posted in the videos and links above.

One thing they did mention as you pointed out, was that in normal times they do the trial wait for results and do paper work, and then move on to next phase when all is completed. During the pandemic it was decided that once they had done that phase of the trial, providing it was judged safe and had results coming in as expected that they started the next phase in order to speed up the process. Don't remember exactly but this saved a lot of time in getting this rolled out
 

Liamo

Well-known member
One thing they did mention as you pointed out, was that in normal times they do the trial wait for results and do paper work, and then move on to next phase when all is completed. During the pandemic it was decided that once they had done that phase of the trial, providing it was judged safe and had results coming in as expected that they started the next phase in order to speed up the process. Don't remember exactly but this saved a lot of time in getting this rolled out
In fact, it was pointed out in one article I read that previously, the normal minimum time between submitting each clinical trial phase for approval, and receiving said approval, was six months, as was the time between submitting each trial phase's results for review, and the regulatory authority starting their review. Even after the reviews started, they would often proceed at a leisurely pace, while working on other matters at the same time.

Sometimes, especially if there was no particular rush, these intervals could be a year or more. By eliminating this wasted time between phases and while waiting for reviews to take place, this could also save up to a couple of years in total.

Also, according to the video I posted earlier (and other sources) with the Covid vaccines they didn't always even wait for a phase to finish before starting the next, they overlapped them.

Another area where they saved time was in setting up the clinical trials. In the past, it would typically take many months to recruit and vet the volunteers, establish the trial parameters, recruit the research team members who would take part, etc.

In large part because of clinical trials done over the decades for AIDS medicines and vaccines, there were pre-established networks and procedures in place that meant clinical trials could be set up within weeks rather than months.

The decades of AIDS research had also honed techniques for vaccine design and vastly improved scientists' knowledge of the immune system, all of which helped speed up the development of Covid vaccines.

How HIV Research Laid the Foundation for Covid Vaccines
 
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