Don't Get People Not Getting Vaccinated

MolteniArcore

Well-known member
Unless it's for medical reason, I don't get it, we all have kids vaccinated for all other diseases and don't think twice, so why are so many adults against getting themselves jabbed

Unless exempt (as you say) they are just thick as mince - but that is their choice. What I do take a real exception to is people who decide not to take it and then try to sway others to reject it too. This is dangerous and selfish and I would sanction these people somehow.
 

RED_STAR

New member
I've had both my vaccinations and so has the rest of my family but for some people it all comes down to what they see and who they trust.
I have a good friend who simply refuses to get the vaccine and everytime I mention it too him he
always replies with the same argument that is " throughout history there has been loads of drugs that went through trials and got approved but were later found out to be extremely dangerous to people, like Thalidomide, Propoxyphene and Mylotarg".
He has also had covid and was lucky enough to get over it quickly so he doesn't feel the need to be vaccinated.
 

MolteniArcore

Well-known member
I've had both my vaccinations and so has the rest of my family but for some people it all comes down to what they see and who they trust.
I have a good friend who simply refuses to get the vaccine and everytime I mention it too him he
always replies with the same argument that is " throughout history there has been loads of drugs that went through trials and got approved but were later found out to be extremely dangerous to people, like Thalidomide, Propoxyphene and Mylotarg".
He has also had covid and was lucky enough to get over it quickly so he doesn't feel the need to be vaccinated.

That person would no longer be my good friend.
 

Andy_W

Well-known member
What a lot of people don't realise, or can't get their head around is that 95% of the work on these vaccines was done before 99.99999% of people had even heard of Coronavirus, never mind Covid-19, and never mind Jan/ Feb 20, when this first became known to a lot of people.

We've had 100 years of practice at making vaccines and coronavirus' have been around longer than that, then there was SARS and MERS as pretty good "practice runs" so to speak, they knew this was coming. It wasn't a case of if, it was a case of when, it's just a good job it's not as lethal as SARS or MERS, albeit the increased transmissibility is the problem (and why this got rolled out so fast).

As for vaccines, the 100 years of practice, and now having more knowledge and computing power than any year previous, makes it incomparable to durations taken for other vaccines. As years increase, detection speed increases, speed of creation increases, effect increases, problems decrease, safety increases etc. As soon as it's sequenced, they can figure it out rather quickly, and using techniques and methods, already known as safe, due to previous vaccines.

MRNA is fairly new, but it's been known about for a while and should be the safest of all, up to know, and that was known before we even rolled out or tested Pfizer etc.

The problem is virus that are in this orange square below, Covid-19 original strain is somewhere on the bottom line, and over to the far left, but Delta is bottom line, but in the middle. Both about 1% death untreated, and R0 of about 2/3 for original, and maybe R0 of about 8 for delta.The further right, the more likely a pandemic is, and then the higher up, the more of a problem that pandemic is, that's why all of the virus' in this square have been pretty much solved already, or can largely be treated or prevented. They're the biggest problems. Left of the square and it doesn't transmit much, and below it, it doesn't do much (comparatively)

So, now that something new(ish) just appeared in that square, they need to solve it quickly, so hence why the entire world spent a fortune on pushing it through, saving time, it wasn't unsafe to do this (the methods are already known as safe, more than they ever were), it just costs a lot to do this, and requires people to bump it up their "to do list".

A vaccine could be put together in a week now, and be known as safe, where as it could have took 10 years of investigation and testing previous, to get the 10% near the same level of knowledge as today. Would people rather trust a 1920's doctor giving them a jab after looking at something for 10 years, or would they rather trust that medical science and computing power has advanced so much that we can advance on and replicate 1920's in about 10 minutes? They do the latter every single time they visit a pharmacist, doctor, hospital or dentist etc, for anything, but why not vaccines? Weird.

Most of the anti-vaxers I've met seem to have low numerical ability and are generally quite illogical in general. At lot of them mean well, but they just don't understand, as they can't understand. To explain it to them (from their mates) is difficult as they treat all public opinion the same, and are unwilling to go and chat to an expert. If they were all asked to speak to an expert, or could get a tour of a covid ward, when turning down the vaccines, I think more could be swayed.

It's funny mind, as they will take advice (or at least listen to logic) on finance aspects, but not even listen to anything about new vaccines, yet they don't understand the numbers for either of them.

The above lot are different to the conspiracy lot, who just can't be helped.

Then there's some who just do not understand the reciprocal benefit, economical benefit, and cannot see the bigger picture.

Then there are others who just do not understand that something working to reduce transmission even by 30-70% or whatever, can have an absolutely massive effect on R, which is the driving factor behind whether their kids are in school and their shop/ bar/ restaurant is open for them to go to work or get hammered.



1631698273127.png
 

Liamo

Well-known member
I have a good friend who simply refuses to get the vaccine and everytime I mention it too him he always replies with the same argument that is " throughout history there has been loads of drugs that went through trials and got approved but were later found out to be extremely dangerous to people, like Thalidomide, Propoxyphene and Mylotarg".
Yes, it has happened - with therapeutic drugs, which are a totally different class of medicine to vaccines.

Whereas it has never been shown to happen with any vaccine in history.

The article below explains this rather well.

Things to know about the long term side effects of covid vaccines

As it mentions:

Unlike many medications, which are taken daily, vaccines are generally one-and-done. Medicines you take every day can cause side effects that reveal themselves over time, including long-term problems as levels of the drug build up in the body over months and years.

"Vaccines are just designed to deliver a payload and then are quickly eliminated by the body,” Goepfert said. “This is particularly true of the mRNA vaccines. mRNA degrades incredibly rapidly. You wouldn’t expect any of these vaccines to have any long-term side effects. And in fact, this has never occurred with any vaccine."
 
Last edited:

Brian Marwood

Well-known member
What a lot of people don't realise, or can't get their head around is that 95% of the work on these vaccines was done before 99.99999% of people had even heard of Coronavirus, never mind Covid-19, and never mind Jan/ Feb 20, when this first became known to a lot of people.

We've had 100 years of practice at making vaccines and coronavirus' have been around longer than that, then there was SARS and MERS as pretty good "practice runs" so to speak, they knew this was coming. It wasn't a case of if, it was a case of when, it's just a good job it's not as lethal as SARS or MERS, albeit the increased transmissibility is the problem (and why this got rolled out so fast).

As for vaccines, the 100 years of practice, and now having more knowledge and computing power than any year previous, makes it incomparable to durations taken for other vaccines. As years increase, detection speed increases, speed of creation increases, effect increases, problems decrease, safety increases etc. As soon as it's sequenced, they can figure it out rather quickly, and using techniques and methods, already known as safe, due to previous vaccines.

MRNA is fairly new, but it's been known about for a while and should be the safest of all, up to know, and that was known before we even rolled out or tested Pfizer etc.

The problem is virus that are in this orange square below, Covid-19 original strain is somewhere on the bottom line, and over to the far left, but Delta is bottom line, but in the middle. Both about 1% death untreated, and R0 of about 2/3 for original, and maybe R0 of about 8 for delta.The further right, the more likely a pandemic is, and then the higher up, the more of a problem that pandemic is, that's why all of the virus' in this square have been pretty much solved already, or can largely be treated or prevented. They're the biggest problems. Left of the square and it doesn't transmit much, and below it, it doesn't do much (comparatively)

So, now that something new(ish) just appeared in that square, they need to solve it quickly, so hence why the entire world spent a fortune on pushing it through, saving time, it wasn't unsafe to do this (the methods are already known as safe, more than they ever were), it just costs a lot to do this, and requires people to bump it up their "to do list".

A vaccine could be put together in a week now, and be known as safe, where as it could have took 10 years of investigation and testing previous, to get the 10% near the same level of knowledge as today. Would people rather trust a 1920's doctor giving them a jab after looking at something for 10 years, or would they rather trust that medical science and computing power has advanced so much that we can advance on and replicate 1920's in about 10 minutes? They do the latter every single time they visit a pharmacist, doctor, hospital or dentist etc, for anything, but why not vaccines? Weird.

Most of the anti-vaxers I've met seem to have low numerical ability and are generally quite illogical in general. At lot of them mean well, but they just don't understand, as they can't understand. To explain it to them (from their mates) is difficult as they treat all public opinion the same, and are unwilling to go and chat to an expert. If they were all asked to speak to an expert, or could get a tour of a covid ward, when turning down the vaccines, I think more could be swayed.

It's funny mind, as they will take advice (or at least listen to logic) on finance aspects, but not even listen to anything about new vaccines, yet they don't understand the numbers for either of them.

The above lot are different to the conspiracy lot, who just can't be helped.

Then there's some who just do not understand the reciprocal benefit, economical benefit, and cannot see the bigger picture.

Then there are others who just do not understand that something working to reduce transmission even by 30-70% or whatever, can have an absolutely massive effect on R, which is the driving factor behind whether their kids are in school and their shop/ bar/ restaurant is open for them to go to work or get hammered.



View attachment 24501

That's what they want us to believe and what you have been forced to tell us. You work for Bill Gates I assume?
 

Redwurzel

Well-known member
I am not an anti-Vac and I am double jabbed, but know people who are not. One of the people was until very recently a higher professional in the NHS.

Some think its too early to know the long term side effects. Others are worried about immediate side effects to exisiting conditions say recovering from cancer. I know people who have had bad side effects and I had pains in the my ankle. All probably have an above average mistrust of medical experts.

I can tell from the tone of some these posts that many on here believe fully the expertise of medical professionals, but they do make genuine mistakes/diagnosis. In my family my dad when in his 60s had extremely bad pains in his lower back and was diagnosed with arthritis and sent to see a physio. A couple of years later it was rediagnosed as advance prostate cancer which he died from. Thats quite a difference.

I am disappointed that people are dying from C19 who are double vaccinated, to me that was not in the script.
 

JM14

Well-known member
Personal choice at the end of the day, but it’s going to be a tough one to take when we’re in a winter lockdown because of hospitals full of unvaccinated people who could have so easily prevented it
Genuinely concerning the amount of misinformation freely available and even more concerning that people actually believe it
 

Andy_W

Well-known member
That's what they want us to believe and what you have been forced to tell us. You work for Bill Gates I assume?
I hope you're not being serious?

It's funny mind, as we never seem to get an answer to:
Who is "they"?
Why would "they" want us to believe anything, what would be the overall goal in this?
What is the benefit to "they", by having us not working, and funding people to sit in the garden? I thought all the bad people wanted everyone working as slaves?
Is every doctor and nurse in the world/ NHS in on it too? Do they keep it a secret from their partners, and family etc?
Is Bill Gates bad? He's probably spent more than anyone reducing infectious diseases, reducing poverty and helped public health than anyone else in the world? Or was he just really good, then just turned really bad, and is now some sort of Bond villain? When did he turn?

The amount of time I spend using Windows, probably does mean I work for Bill Gates, or at least it seems that way :ROFLMAO:
 

Brian Marwood

Well-known member
I hope you're not being serious?

It's funny mind, as we never seem to get an answer to:
Who is "they"?
Why would "they" want us to believe anything, what would be the overall goal in this?
What is the benefit to "they", by having us not working, and funding people to sit in the garden? I thought all the bad people wanted everyone working as slaves?
Is every doctor and nurse in the world/ NHS in on it too? Do they keep it a secret from their partners, and family etc?
Is Bill Gates bad? He's probably spent more than anyone reducing infectious diseases, reducing poverty and helped public health than anyone else in the world? Or was he just really good, then just turned really bad, and is now some sort of Bond villain? When did he turn?

The amount of time I spend using Windows, probably does mean I work for Bill Gates, or at least it seems that way :ROFLMAO:

'They' are the illuminati performing the global reset as discussed at the Bildeberg convention :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 

Liamo

Well-known member
I am disappointed that people are dying from C19 who are double vaccinated, to me that was not in the script.
I think we're all disappointed by that but one thing to bear in mind is that it's still a tiny minority of Covid deaths.

According to ONS statistics, "In England, between 2 January and 2 July 2021, there were 51,281 deaths involving coronavirus (COVID-19)."

Only 256 of those deaths occurred in people, "who had received both vaccine doses and had a first positive PCR test at least 14 days after the second vaccination."

Covid deaths by vaccination status

It's also my understanding that nearly all of the deaths in double-vaccinated people involved either the elderly, the immunocompromised, or people with co-morbidities, as mentioned below:

... fully vaccinated people can get very sick and die from the virus in rare cases. Those individuals tend to be older than 65 or have weakened immune systems or other severe medical conditions.
Rarely, Covid vaccine breakthrough infections can be severe. Who's at risk?
 

Andy_W

Well-known member
Some think its too early to know the long term side effects. Others are worried about immediate side effects to exisiting conditions say recovering from cancer. I know people who have had bad side effects and I had pains in the my ankle. All probably have an above average mistrust of medical experts.

I can tell from the tone of some these posts that many on here believe fully the expertise of medical professionals, but they do make genuine mistakes/diagnosis. In my family my dad when in his 60s had extremely bad pains in his lower back and was diagnosed with arthritis and sent to see a physio. A couple of years later it was rediagnosed as advance prostate cancer which he died from. Thats quite a difference.

I am disappointed that people are dying from C19 who are double vaccinated, to me that was not in the script.
The thing is everyone's going to get exposed multiple times, so there is no route of total avoidance.

So, the counter to "we don't know the long term effects", is the short term side effects of covid are already known, extremely well, and the possibility that vaccines are anywhere near as bad, or worse is nil.

Also the same for the known medium-term effects (long covid is medium term, up to now, I suppose, no doubt will go long term for some), covid worse, vaccine much, much better.

The long term effects of covid are naturally probably going to be high too, it's pretty much a given unless it's just death/ long (medium) covid and then somehow this ends up as nil further effect after 2 years plus? Unlikely.

The "long term" effect thing is an illogical argument, as the long term effects of covid are far more likely to be worse, and that's if you escape without any short or medium-term covid effects (which we already know are worse). Even if long term effects of covid end up being the same as the long term effects of vax, the covid route is already worse, before you even get to the long term, i.e statistically/ probability wise, they've already lost.

Covid will make recovery from almost anything life-threatening (like cancer) harder, as proven by more people with health issues being killed by covid. It's hard for the body to fight one fight, never mind two or three.

People are calling side effects, things that are totally unrelated. 1/100 might get ankle pain any one year, just because 1/100 get ankle pain next year, after a vaccination, is not a reason to call it a side effect etc, these things happen, people still get sick/ injured as per normal percentages.

Of course double vaccinated people are going to die of covid, 95% over 80's are vaxxed, and even vaccinated they still carry over 80% of the covid risk for the whole population. The chance of they dying is cut by about 90-95% though, which is a great result. Now, an unvaxed 30 year old is the same risk as a double vaxd 70 year old, and this is why the unvaxxed are dying at a rate 10x that of the double jabbed, for comparable probility/poulations.
 

Andy_W

Well-known member
'They' are the illuminati performing the global reset as discussed at the Bildeberg convention :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: It's a classic that, those controlling and running world governments, those with all the wealth, and those who are massively damaging the environment, want to implement a system where all of their wealth and power gets taken away, evenly redistributed and used to cut emissions. :unsure:

Those who seem to whinge about it most on social media, would be the ones who benefit most from it!
 

Andy_W

Well-known member
I think we're all disappointed by that but one thing to bear in mind is that it's still a tiny minority of Covid deaths.

According to ONS statistics, "In England, between 2 January and 2 July 2021, there were 51,281 deaths involving coronavirus (COVID-19)."

Only 256 of those deaths occurred in people, "who had received both vaccine doses and had a first positive PCR test at least 14 days after the second vaccination."

Covid deaths by vaccination status

It's also my understanding that nearly all of the deaths in double-vaccinated people involved either the elderly, the immunocompromised, or people with co-morbidities, as mentioned below:


Rarely, Covid vaccine breakthrough infections can be severe. Who's at risk?
Great post.
 

HiredGun123

Well-known member
If we had social media in the 1960's and people had the ability to spread anti vax nonsense. We'd still have smallpox.

Well maybe, but then again, if we there had been social media then, maybe there could’ve been more awareness of thalidomide it’s affects on killing and disfiguring babies.

It all really depends on how you look at it

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with having a little bit of caution with medication or vaccines that we don’t fully understand and ones that have been developed quickly.

It’s one people saying we’re more scientifically advanced right now compared to the past , so they can make vaccines quickly, but in 30 years, some practices now will seem archaic too. So there’s always room for massive errors unless you assume now is as good as it’s ever going to be.

I’m not an anti-vaccine person by the way, I just think for all those reasons, it’s healthy that there’s still some scepticism too.
 

The_Lizards_Jumpers

Well-known member
Well maybe, but then again, if we there had been social media then, maybe there could’ve been more awareness of thalidomide it’s affects on killing and disfiguring babies.

yep, I'm sure Karen a typist from Kidderminster could have educated the general public about the long terms effects of that particular vaccine via teletext...


It's not that people shouldn't have concerns about any medicine they take, it's about the misinformation and "independent research' via social media that people do, putting as much faith in a youtube posters in the US' views as they do in the word of the CMO.
 

HiredGun123

Well-known member
I am not an anti-Vac and I am double jabbed, but know people who are not. One of the people was until very recently a higher professional in the NHS.

Some think its too early to know the long term side effects. Others are worried about immediate side effects to exisiting conditions say recovering from cancer. I know people who have had bad side effects and I had pains in the my ankle. All probably have an above average mistrust of medical experts.

I can tell from the tone of some these posts that many on here believe fully the expertise of medical professionals, but they do make genuine mistakes/diagnosis. In my family my dad when in his 60s had extremely bad pains in his lower back and was diagnosed with arthritis and sent to see a physio. A couple of years later it was rediagnosed as advance prostate cancer which he died from. Thats quite a difference.

I am disappointed that people are dying from C19 who are double vaccinated, to me that was not in the script.

Similar to my dad

The doctor kept diagnosing him with a stomach infection and giving him antibiotics. Turned out he had Oesophageal cancer and died 2 years later . Had they not assumed, ran proper tests, they may have caught it much earlier and operated.

It’s not uncommon. Just because people are professionals, it doesn’t mean they’re always right.

I understand this doesn’t really have much relevance to covid as a whole.

But generally speaking, science is always improving right? - we can look back on huge errors made 60 years ago and put it down to lack of knowledge and advancement. Who’s really to say in 50 years, it won’t be the case? We just don’t know. The only way you can think that is to believe we know everything right now, which is obviously not true.
 
Top
X