Did the January trade figures get a mention on here?

Laughing said:
I think you have to blame the British government for lack of preparation not the EU. It was our timeline and our agenda. Johnson doesn't give a hoot about sme's. The EU offered a long extension to the transition period given the world pandemic and Johnson turned it down. They have even offered to go back to transition whilst we sort ourselves out, Johnson said no.
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Precisely. The EU are just implementing the agreement, which Johnson signed.
 
The Tories don't care about trade, they don't care about SMEs, they don't care about manufacturing, etc etc - the only thing they care about is the UK's role in world finance, which is where they and their pals make their money which they stash in offshore tax havens.

Membership of the EU threatened their little scheme, which is the primary reason why they wanted out. So the Tories got what they wanted - they don't give a #%*& about anything else.

We can moan all day about this that and the other, but nothing will change as long as they are in power, and even if they do go it's not like we can flick a switch to make it as if brexit never happened.

So we're doomed folks.

Doomed I tell ye.
 
tripleheader said:
What disturbs me is that these companies were dealing with the EU before Brexit, and that no interim measures were put in place that would avoid damaging to both parties. This country put more into the Eu pot than most and it strikes me as rather vindictive of the Europeans to react in the way they are doing. One thing I do know is that we gave up an awful lot to join the common market, but it is clear that there was and is a different agenda today than what was promised back then. Pig headed stubbornness by both sides in all of this and we are all losers because of it. These companies are going to have to look inward for some time.
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The rules are not ‘new’ rules. They are the existing rules for 3rd countries, rules that we helped shape and were fully aware of at government level, or should have been.

Businesses had not had to deal with these rules for decades and after a referendum campaign where the winning side had repeatedly said we wouldn’t be leaving the Single Market and more than 4 years denying there would be any increase in red tape, while dealing with a pandemic, they were given 7 days notice what the future relationship was actually going to be.

We could have picked any of these relationships, but WE chose not to, despite what the Leave campaigns said

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tripleheader said:
What disturbs me is that these companies were dealing with the EU before Brexit, and that no interim measures were put in place that would avoid damaging to both parties. This country put more into the Eu pot than most and it strikes me as rather vindictive of the Europeans to react in the way they are doing. One thing I do know is that we gave up an awful lot to join the common market, but it is clear that there was and is a different agenda today than what was promised back then. Pig headed stubbornness by both sides in all of this and we are all losers because of it. These companies are going to have to look inward for some time.
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This is either deliberately disingenuous or monumentally ignorant. Thsee consequences are literally what we signed up for. We deliberately chose to be a third country: out of the single market, out of the customs union and no frictionless trade. Brexit means Brexit. It is absolutely not pigheaded stubbornness on the part of the EU but rather the inevitable consequences of the precise agreement our Vote Leave government chose to do, apparently with full voiced support from those that voted leave. If leave voters don’t like those consequences then they didn’t vote for this kind of Brexit. Difficult to reconcile with the whole ‘we know what we voted for’ thing because day after day comments like this prove the opposite to be true.
 
Adi_Dem said:
This is either deliberately disingenuous or monumentally ignorant. Thsee consequences are literally what we signed up for. We deliberately chose to be a third country: out of the single market, out of the customs union and no frictionless trade. Brexit means Brexit. It is absolutely not pigheaded stubbornness on the part of the EU but rather the inevitable consequences of the precise agreement our Vote Leave government chose to do, apparently with full voiced support from those that voted leave. If leave voters don’t like those consequences then they didn’t vote for this kind of Brexit. Difficult to reconcile with the whole ‘we know what we voted for’ thing because day after day comments like this prove the opposite to be true.
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The more people talk about the EU being mean to poor old UK, they're finally acknowledging how important our previous relationship was for the good of this country.
 
In my view it was all about the immigration and when people vote on those lines the trade situation is ‘not my problem guv, it’s those bloody foreigners.’
 
tripleheader said:
What disturbs me is that these companies were dealing with the EU before Brexit, and that no interim measures were put in place that would avoid damaging to both parties. This country put more into the Eu pot than most and it strikes me as rather vindictive of the Europeans to react in the way they are doing. One thing I do know is that we gave up an awful lot to join the common market, but it is clear that there was and is a different agenda today than what was promised back then. Pig headed stubbornness by both sides in all of this and we are all losers because of it. These companies are going to have to look inward for some time.
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What disturbs me is people are still prepared to blame the EU for this. Its a really worrying situation when you have this cataclysmic event and those that caused it seek to blame everyone but themselves for the mess. I genuinely get depressed when I read people blaming the EU for our damaged economy. WE voted to leave the EU, WE left the customs Union WE are the ones who decided to become a third country. You can't do all that then expect to be treated different to every other third country. Brexiteers and those who defend the process need to own it now.
 
SmallTown said:
What disturbs me is people are still prepared to blame the EU for this. Its a really worrying situation when you have this cataclysmic event and those that caused it seek to blame everyone but themselves for the mess. I genuinely get depressed when I read people blaming the EU for our damaged economy. WE voted to leave the EU, WE left the customs Union WE are the ones who decided to become a third country. You can't do all that then expect to be treated different to every other third country. Brexiteers and those who defend the process need to own it now.
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It's because it has all the characteristics of a cult.
 
Laughing said:
I think you have to blame the British government for lack of preparation not the EU. It was our timeline and our agenda. Johnson doesn't give a hoot about sme's. The EU offered a long extension to the transition period given the world pandemic and Johnson turned it down. They have even offered to go back to transition whilst we sort ourselves out, Johnson said no.
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I blame both sides, and I believe the EU were trying to delay the inevitable which is totally understandable because they were going to lose a big contributor. The real negotiations were going to occur after we left and will continue. The winners in all this , the lawyers.
 
tripleheader said:
I blame both sides, and I believe the EU were trying to delay the inevitable which is totally understandable because they were going to lose a big contributor. The real negotiations were going to occur after we left and will continue. The winners in all this , the lawyers.
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We were a big contributor due to our wealth, we weren't the poor nation so many made us out to be.
 
tripleheader said:
I blame both sides, and I believe the EU were trying to delay the inevitable which is totally understandable because they were going to lose a big contributor. The real negotiations were going to occur after we left and will continue. The winners in all this , the lawyers.
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Just such nonsense.
 
tripleheader said:
I blame both sides, and I believe the EU were trying to delay the inevitable which is totally understandable because they were going to lose a big contributor. The real negotiations were going to occur after we left and will continue. The winners in all this , the lawyers.
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That completely ignores the fact that Johnson's withdrawal agreement was his oven ready deal. The co-operation agreement was agreed by both parties and done on a UK timeline, not an EU timeline.

The EU has done a tremendous amount to help the UK and given Johnson's untrustworthy nature, it's more than we deserved.

This is not the EU's fault not even a tiny little bit. Once we left and negotiations begin, the EU was duty bound to advocate for it's members and Johnson should have been advocating for the UK and it's citizens. He ****ed us over big time.

Blaming the EU is utter nonsense, and I don't want to be part of the EU political project, and even I can see blaming the EU is nonsense.
 
SmallTown said:
What disturbs me is people are still prepared to blame the EU for this. Its a really worrying situation when you have this cataclysmic event and those that caused it seek to blame everyone but themselves for the mess. I genuinely get depressed when I read people blaming the EU for our damaged economy. WE voted to leave the EU, WE left the customs Union WE are the ones who decided to become a third country. You can't do all that then expect to be treated different to every other third country. Brexiteers and those who defend the process need to own it now.
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I haven't put the blame solely on the EU. so lets get that bit straight. Both side have to negotiate different, and newer arrangements, and just sticking to the 'well that's what the rules are and there are no negotiations' is not how civilised people behave. It's going to continue and be a long drawn out affair.
Not forgetting that the U.K government went through 3 different leaders, with there own take on what should be done.
 
tripleheader said:
I haven't put the blame solely on the EU. so lets get that bit straight. Both side have to negotiate different, and newer arrangements, and just sticking to the 'well that's what the rules are and there are no negotiations' is not how civilised people behave. It's going to continue and be a long drawn out affair.
Not forgetting that the U.K government went through 3 different leaders, with there own take on what should be done.
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I reckon you're trolling.
 
tripleheader said:
I haven't put the blame solely on the EU. so lets get that bit straight. Both side have to negotiate different, and newer arrangements, and just sticking to the 'well that's what the rules are and there are no negotiations' is not how civilised people behave. It's going to continue and be a long drawn out affair.
Not forgetting that the U.K government went through 3 different leaders, with there own take on what should be done.
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But that is where the negotiations led. Britain had options, Britain could have maintained better trade links to the EU. It chose not to so can't complain when it gets treat exactly the way it negotiated for. Brexit and the now obvious economic difficulties it is creating is entirely our fault. Still at least admitting someone is to blame is admitting things have gone wrong. Some people can't even do that. Despite these figures
 
tripleheader said:
I haven't put the blame solely on the EU. so lets get that bit straight. Both side have to negotiate different, and newer arrangements, and just sticking to the 'well that's what the rules are and there are no negotiations' is not how civilised people behave. It's going to continue and be a long drawn out affair.
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The EU are bound by not only their own constitution, but other international treaties. They are very limited in what they can negotiate on a bespoke basis.

Hence 'Barniers steps' and why we couldn't have our cake and eat it. The EU are a rulebook, our Brexiter dominated government think rules should only apply to other people.
 
Lefty said:
The EU are bound by not only their own constitution, but other international treaties. They are very limited in what they can negotiate on a bespoke basis.

Hence 'Barniers steps' and why we couldn't have our cake and eat it. The EU are a rulebook, our Brexiter dominated government think rules should only apply to other people.
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Denial is a powerful thing.

Brexit was sold as a wonderful opportunity by which we could open our trading doors to the world whilst essentially having unfettered access to the EU single market without barrier to trade.

Prior to and every day since the referendum the consequences of not being in the single market and not being in the customs Union have been laid out ie if you choose a version of Brexit that means we leave the single market and/or customs union then there are a list of unavoidable consequences and red lines for the EU.

Now that we have left in that way, the very warnings that were given as to the consequences that were predicted are playing out in real time and yet everyone else is being blamed or the consequences are just being denied.
 
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