Coronavirus good news thread

Liamo

Active member
Yeah the paywall is a pain. He's not the first Italian doctor to come out with this though. It's was reported a few weeks back. Can be an explanation for the rise in infections some places but not a a rise in deaths.
Isn't this the same story that was coming out of Italy about a week ago, though? It received a lot of push-back then and this latest claim likewise:
Dr. Oscar McLean from the University of Glasgow countered the Italian's claims stating: "Bassetti's claims seem fairly implausible on genetic grounds" adding "without significantly stronger evidence, no one should unnecessarily downplay the danger this highly virulent virus poses, and risk the ongoing society-wide response."
Edit: Actually, on checking I found it was over 3 weeks ago that this story first came out. There was a quote I found back then, which I think provides a much more plausible explanation, especially given that there is no genetic evidence of the virus having mutated to a less deadly strain:
Zangrillo’s clinical observations are more likely a reflection of the fact that with the peak of the outbreak long past, there is less virus in circulation, and people may be less likely to be exposed to high doses of it. In addition, only severely sick people were likely to be tested early on, compared with the situation now when even those with mild symptoms are more likely to get swabbed, experts said.
 
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borolad259

Administrator
Staff member
Interesting article in the Guardian. Particularly striking is the bit about a small study of family members who had been infected with Sars Cov 2. 75% of them had not antibodies but did have positive T cell response. This makes so much more sense of the serology test results where antibody tests gave surprisingly and implausibly low percentage of positives, given the known scale of infection. It also makes sense when taken with the correlation of vitamin D levels with disease severity, as vitamin D is crucial to T cells. Obviously the sample size is low, but the implication is that perhaps 3 times as many people have been infected in the population than the serology test results suggest.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...t-antibody-tests-covid-19-immuity-coronavirus
 

RandySavage

Well-known member
The T cells subject has been discussed a lot I've seen over the past few weeks.

Separately this guy is worth a follow or even just look through his timeline on Twitter. Screenshot_20200626-100605.png

Speaks a lot of calm sense. His video about a second wave is worth a watch too.
 

borolad259

Administrator
Staff member
It would appear that the "dark data" that has been talked about actually is the T cell immunity that has protected far more of the population than the antibody tests show. Researchers at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden have data that confirms what I posted upthread.

Quote:
Study: Immunity to corona greater than antibody test shows
UPDATED YESTERDAY 23:16PUBLISHED YESTERDAY 23:08
People who have been tested negative for antibodies can still have so-called T-cell immunity against covid-19, according to a new report from Karolinska Institutet and Karolinska University Hospital.
- The results indicate that immunity to covid-19 is likely to be significantly greater in society than antibody tests have shown. If that is the case, then it is of course very good from a spread of infection, says Professor Hans-Gustaf Ljunggren at the Center for Infectious Medicine at KI.
T cells are one of the pillars of the immune system. They are white blood cells that help in the production of antibodies, and that also kill infected virus cells.
"Our results indicate that about twice as many people have developed T-cell immunity compared to those with which we can detect antibodies," says Marcus Buggert, associate professor at the Center for Infectious Medicine, KI, in a press release.
Unquote

In analysis of blood donor samples recently, 30% had covid T cells.

The vast majority of people are having mild or asymptomatic Sars Cov 2 infections because their innate immune system is taking care of the virus before it gets chance to take hold. The fact that a robust T cell defence against viral infections is helped by having adequate vitamin D levels also makes sense of why the elderly, BAME groups, the obese etc are most vulnerable (as they are most likely to have D deficiency.

Taken with the % that have antibodies, the % with T cell immunity would explain why the virus is finding it more difficult to find vulnerable hosts now. And, given recent weather, you'd expect fewer people to have vitamin D deficiency ... and to have a more robust immune system.

The full article is here. Should translate in Chrome.
https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/immunitet-mot-corona-storre-an-vad-antikroppstest-visar
 

bear66

Well-known member
It would appear that the "dark data" that has been talked about actually is the T cell immunity that has protected far more of the population than the antibody tests show. Researchers at the Karolinska Institute in Sweden have data that confirms what I posted upthread.

Quote:
Study: Immunity to corona greater than antibody test shows
UPDATED YESTERDAY 23:16PUBLISHED YESTERDAY 23:08
People who have been tested negative for antibodies can still have so-called T-cell immunity against covid-19, according to a new report from Karolinska Institutet and Karolinska University Hospital.
- The results indicate that immunity to covid-19 is likely to be significantly greater in society than antibody tests have shown. If that is the case, then it is of course very good from a spread of infection, says Professor Hans-Gustaf Ljunggren at the Center for Infectious Medicine at KI.
T cells are one of the pillars of the immune system. They are white blood cells that help in the production of antibodies, and that also kill infected virus cells.
"Our results indicate that about twice as many people have developed T-cell immunity compared to those with which we can detect antibodies," says Marcus Buggert, associate professor at the Center for Infectious Medicine, KI, in a press release.
Unquote

In analysis of blood donor samples recently, 30% had covid T cells.

The vast majority of people are having mild or asymptomatic Sars Cov 2 infections because their innate immune system is taking care of the virus before it gets chance to take hold. The fact that a robust T cell defence against viral infections is helped by having adequate vitamin D levels also makes sense of why the elderly, BAME groups, the obese etc are most vulnerable (as they are most likely to have D deficiency.

Taken with the % that have antibodies, the % with T cell immunity would explain why the virus is finding it more difficult to find vulnerable hosts now. And, given recent weather, you'd expect fewer people to have vitamin D deficiency ... and to have a more robust immune system.

The full article is here. Should translate in Chrome.
https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/immunitet-mot-corona-storre-an-vad-antikroppstest-visar
No evidence that vitamin D helps with coronavirus
 

borolad259

Administrator
Staff member
There are plenty of studies that suggest otherwise and, given the well established role of Vitamin D in our immune response to viral and bacterial infection and its established role in mediating inflammatory response, I'm confident that it will emerge as playing a key role. I haven't the link to hand but there was BMJ post within the last few days stating that saying that Vitamin D played no role in Covid severity is plain wrong.

Anyway, it'll come out in the end.

Here's more on the T cell immunity I posted about yesterday.

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-06-immunity-covid-higher-shown.html
 

bear66

Well-known member
There are plenty of studies that suggest otherwise and, given the well established role of Vitamin D in our immune response to viral and bacterial infection and its established role in mediating inflammatory response, I'm confident that it will emerge as playing a key role. I haven't the link to hand but there was BMJ post within the last few days stating that saying that Vitamin D played no role in Covid severity is plain wrong.

Anyway, it'll come out in the end.

Here's more on the T cell immunity I posted about yesterday.

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-06-immunity-covid-higher-shown.html
When it's peer reviewed it will probably be included. They have only analysed peer reviewed published reports.

The link I put up concluded the value of supplementary Vitamin D, but not as a means of Covid-19 prevention.

I linked the BMJ response before.
 
The difficulty in proving something is effective is regression to the mean. Supplementing Vit D if you have healthy levels will be unlikely to improve anything. If you are deficient then it will always be beneficial as it is a fundamental vitamin.

In retrospective studies it is easy to link a to b, especially in health profile- e.g older people and vit D deficiency- however often these studies don't identify the low vit D population who never entered the research setting/ hospital.

I do wonder in the elderly and more vulnerable whether we should supplement appropriately across the board to maximise their health profile- although that would take funding/ support.
 

borolad259

Administrator
Staff member
There's no point in supplements for those with adequate levels, but it would seem sensible to try to boos the levels of those people who are deficient ... for all kinds of reasons. The elderly don't get out much and tend to have low vit D levels, plus their T cell response is weaker .... it's strongest in young people. BAME medics on the frontline are already supplementing as a precaution. Most people are deficient in late winter ... but have decent levels until the autumn (as it is stored in fat for a time).
 

RandySavage

Well-known member
I started taking it in April. My line of work means some days, especially in the winter months I won't see natural daylight for any sort of length of time. Some days I won't see it at all, if I'm doing s breakfast shift for example.

This report saying vitamin D does nothing to protect against covid-19 is a very dangerous report to release as surely any sort of extra vitamin intake is better than none at all.
 

bear66

Well-known member
I started taking it in April. My line of work means some days, especially in the winter months I won't see natural daylight for any sort of length of time. Some days I won't see it at all, if I'm doing s breakfast shift for example.

This report saying vitamin D does nothing to protect against covid-19 is a very dangerous report to release as surely any sort of extra vitamin intake is better than none at all.
The report says exactly that. Keep taking it.
 

FabioPorkpie

Well-known member
Remdesivir stock for U.K. confirmed (feels a bit ‘dirty’ calling this good news when many countries are probably going to lose out following US aggressive purchasing) and a hint further ongoing tests may be about to yield some positive results ? 🤞🏻?🤞🏻🤞🏻


‘Dr Hill said some results of the drug studies will be announced at an international conference next week, adding: "I can't tell you anything right now. But it's definitely time to watch this space and think about alternatives too."
 

RandySavage

Well-known member
Remdesivir stock for U.K. confirmed (feels a bit ‘dirty’ calling this good news when many countries are probably going to lose out following US aggressive purchasing) and a hint further ongoing tests may be about to yield some positive results ? 🤞🏻?🤞🏻🤞🏻


‘Dr Hill said some results of the drug studies will be announced at an international conference next week, adding: "I can't tell you anything right now. But it's definitely time to watch this space and think about alternatives too."
There must be an absolute concrete reason as to why Trump's administration bought up all that stock.
Oh to be a fly on the wall behind closed doors.
 
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