Controversial Covid post

You're assuming there are experts on Covid19 to make their cases for you. There aren't, despite what's been broadcast.

Like others

They aren't stopping, that's the thing, they're still happening. My third op since June is in a fortnight.

There's lots of rubbish being written about the effects on the rest of the NHS, a lot of which is untrue.
Hearing constant quotes in the media from medical professionals saying that stuff will have to be cancelled or delayed because of covid cases though.
Why?

There is a bigger picture that we aren't seeing.
 
Why is a covid case more important than a cancer case? Or more important than a surgery to replace a knee joint or a hip joint?
Why does everything in hospitals stop because of covid?

Cancer cases are still being treated at Leeds. As I stated, it's non-essential operations that have been suspended.

The reason things stop because of Covid is it doesn't look great letting people who need ICU care die in corridors whilst John Smith get's his varicose veins done. When things get more serious and they have to make a decision between cancer ops and Covid thankfully it's professionals who have been at the coal face who make these calls, not Joe Public who's guided by the pseudoscience.

It's not that hard to grasp is it?
 
I think what you and statto are saying is you believe the narrative that supports your own.
Fair enough
I’m not convinced by either.

Seems to me
If we are being overwhelmed and cases/deaths are going to be a real problem then we are in deep sh1t. So, despite lockdwons, masks, social distancing and hand washing no/little light at the end of the tunnel.
Assumption - some people aren’t following the rules.
More rules don’t mean more compliance. I suspect those breaking rules now (a small but significant minority) will continue to do so.
The other option - explain the rules and consequences and let people make there own decisions. Most of us being sensible now wold continue to be just that and the idiots may continue - no worse off.
Example - I’m in Lincoln about to go into tier 2 because of students. I understand that.
If I’m daft enough to go to a student bar then I deserve all I get. I don’t and won’t. Equally, they don‘t come anywhere near my pub. Our paths will never cross.
The other assumption regarding the rules - is they may be ineffective. I think we’ve exhausted that one.

The other consideration is we keep doing what we are doing until a vaccine is ‘rushed through’ in record time. Brings with it all sorts of other questions.

Statto responded, I concur with what he says, apart from the living in Lincoln bit. I've only ever stayed there one night, in the Double Tree, if it's still there? Lovely city.
 
Hearing constant quotes in the media from medical professionals saying that stuff will have to be cancelled or delayed because of covid cases though.
Why?

There is a bigger picture that we aren't seeing.

No mate, we ARE seeing the bigger picture. We are listening to the experts who have been telling us what's coming and showing us this with evidence. You seem to be getting your information from quacks who are telling you everything is an overreaction and the pandemic is over. Don't be surprised when we end up in another national lockdown, cases are rising big time and we aren't doing much about it. False positives don't result in increased hospitalisations.
 
Cancer cases are still being treated at Leeds. As I stated, it's non-essential operations that have been suspended.

The reason things stop because of Covid is it doesn't look great letting people who need ICU care die in corridors whilst John Smith get's his varicose veins done. When things get more serious and they have to make a decision between cancer ops and Covid thankfully it's professionals who have been at the coal face who make these calls, not Joe Public who's guided by the pseudoscience.

It's not that hard to grasp is it?

I get you. So Mr Smith with his poorly knee who has been in constant pain for the past 10 months is told he'll have to wait longer because Mr Thomas has come in to a separate department all together with covid symptoms.

Says more about the state of the NHS than it does about anything else at all. Yet Hancock is still in a job, NHS management, all 346,912 of them with their silly targets are still on a job but Mr Smith, who by this point is unable to work because of the pain in his knee, loses his job, his home and mental health takes another victim.
 
Why is a covid case more important than a cancer case? Or more important than a surgery to replace a knee joint or a hip joint?
Why does everything in hospitals stop because of covid?

Are you for real? Maybe go down James Cook (or any hospital) and ask them ridiculous questions?

But to answer (again):
Because covid will kill faster if it's a problem, and we know it's a problem for those that require hospital
Covid is also highly infectious and can spread through unknown carriers, a healthy person can give it to someone more at risk
You have to pick one to treat first, and it is always the one with the the biggest risk first (the one that can't breathe).

In an ideal world you would treat both, but that's not possible 1: because of cuts, 2: because we aren't getting foreign nurses or retaining them, 3: There isn't the staff to man the current posts, 4: there isn't the staff to man extra posts.

We can't have extra demand (double deaths like at the peak means massive demand), at a time when we are already understaffed, without it leading to more dead people. It's not possible.

Also, they're doing what they can to keep admitting those with life threating injuries, or those most at risk, and seem to be doing a good job as they can, buy all accounts. Seems to me like it's the least risk that are being cancelled or rescheduled first. If I had a bad knee (which I do) then I would turn down any appointment if it could free up some nurse/ specialist time to maybe go and chip in at ICU or anywhere else more necessary.
 
Hearing constant quotes in the media from medical professionals saying that stuff will have to be cancelled or delayed because of covid cases though.
Why?

There is a bigger picture that we aren't seeing.

Be a bit more selective with your media choices. I've had my lot with the mixed messages/outright lies from a section of the press and TV, from the theorist blogs and people claiming to be experts after 9 months of this disease.

I'm trying to pick up from those on the front line and look at the stats without screaming the virus is over r we're all doomed at the slightest change.

I'm not interested in what's going in in Sweden as a comparison, you can't compare nations with different philosophies to life. I'm interested in what's happening here, around me.

I've listened to experts saying there's no spread in supermarkets, pubs, etc then hear that my local has been a centre of the virus spreading, and that the common denominator for a lot of recent spread has been a town centre supermarket frequented by returning students.

Until we have real experts in Covid19 I'll listen to those who have been at the forefront of treatment, who are seeing results of changing practices and have guarded optimism at the moment due to the lower death count we're currently experiencing. I'm also listening to their advice, and it's simple, it's been around since the virus started.
 
Be a bit more selective with your media choices. I've had my lot with the mixed messages/outright lies from a section of the press and TV, from the theorist blogs and people claiming to be experts after 9 months of this disease.

I'm trying to pick up from those on the front line and look at the stats without screaming the virus is over r we're all doomed at the slightest change.

I'm not interested in what's going in in Sweden as a comparison, you can't compare nations with different philosophies to life. I'm interested in what's happening here, around me.

I've listened to experts saying there's no spread in supermarkets, pubs, etc then hear that my local has been a centre of the virus spreading, and that the common denominator for a lot of recent spread has been a town centre supermarket frequented by returning students.

Until we have real experts in Covid19 I'll listen to those who have been at the forefront of treatment, who are seeing results of changing practices and have guarded optimism at the moment due to the lower death count we're currently experiencing. I'm also listening to their advice, and it's simple, it's been around since the virus started.

I’m no expert :eek:
But I can tell you - from March to September I know a food retail business with over 2000 employees that had 2 people test +ve for Covid.
In that time they worked without masks, with a public who didn’t really understand social distancing, and with masks (where some customers still refuse to wear them).
They see over 500000 customers a week.
I’m generally against certainty and facts but on this one I am 100% confident.
 
Statto responded, I concur with what he says, apart from the living in Lincoln bit. I've only ever stayed there one night, in the Double Tree, if it's still there? Lovely city.

Double Tree is still there. We do agree on one thing - Lincoln is a beautiful City. Been here nearly 6 years and love it.
We are not that far away ref Covid - I’m far less certain than you and Stato. I understand totally where you are coming from though.
Sometimes (if i was being picky) I don’t think you want to understand where others are coming from.
Disagreeing is fine and dandy but to understand - ’see what they see, hear what they hear and feel what they feel’.
Understanding is good btw
 
Well this makes very interesting reading.........Hmmmm 🤔
And it’s not coming from some David Ike nut job. It’s from the government.


‘A single Ct value in the absence of clinical context cannot be relied upon for decision making about a person’s infectivity.’

‘RT-PCR detects presence of viral genetic material in a sample but is not able to distinguish whether infectious virus is present.’

‘The clinical significance of positive results with high Ct are difficult to interpret in the absence of clinical history and context.’


https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/cycle-threshold-ct-in-sars-cov-2-rt-pcr


Now is it really that difficult to see why some of us have questions about the daily data we are being given??
 
Thought long and hard about posting this, but on balance, there are lots of well informed posters on this board who like to get their teeth into topics and research stuff from all sides of the debate.

I have been trying to follow all sides of the ‘discussion’ throughout but one of the things I have difficulty with is the fact that those with a more legitimate and sensible opposing view are often mainly given a platform on right wing media sites (by people I absolutely cannot stand or give any credibility to, such as the vile Toby Young and James Delingpole) or conspiracy theory websites. I think it’s pretty apparent that I am most definitely well to the left of centre so that’s a conflict for me.

However, looking beyond that, and at the message rather than where it is being delivered from, I keep seeing more and more that simply doesn’t add up and more and more from Dr Mike Yeadon that makes sense.
He speaks well, is legitimate and clearly well informed in the topic, although he often comes across as arrogant and steadfastly ‘I’m right, you’re wrong’ in a lot of things, which doesn’t help his cause.
However, the content of what he says makes sense and he is clearly very passionate and taking a big risk and putting himself up there for humiliation of he’s wrong.

So I’m interested to know what others on here think, whose views I respect and who like to look at facts and research, such as @bear66, @Laughing, @Matt, @Cambsred @Liamo etc etc, and if anybody is able to pull what he says apart I’d be very interested. I have listened to this podcast (and read other stuff he’s put out there) sceptically at first, and I’ve tried to question what he says but I can’t help thinking he is speaking a lot of sense? Am I wrong??

And yes, I know the podcast is from a very right wing character who I massively dislike, but it’s purely the interviewee I’m interested in.

Anyway, it’s a loooong listen but is, I think, very worthwhile -



And for balance, here is the only thing I’ve found that tackles Yeadon’s high false positive claims, although I don’t think it’s very clear or conclusive -

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/false-positives-coronavirus_uk_5f686da4c5b6de79b677e909
https://youtu.be/mG1PKHR_5DY?t=196
 
Double Tree is still there. We do agree on one thing - Lincoln is a beautiful City. Been here nearly 6 years and love it.
We are not that far away ref Covid - I’m far less certain than you and Stato. I understand totally where you are coming from though.
Sometimes (if i was being picky) I don’t think you want to understand where others are coming from.
Disagreeing is fine and dandy but to understand - ’see what they see, hear what they hear and feel what they feel’.
Understanding is good btw

I agree with you there, I am guilty of that.
 
Well this makes very interesting reading.........Hmmmm 🤔
And it’s not coming from some David Ike nut job. It’s from the government.


‘A single Ct value in the absence of clinical context cannot be relied upon for decision making about a person’s infectivity.’

‘RT-PCR detects presence of viral genetic material in a sample but is not able to distinguish whether infectious virus is present.’

‘The clinical significance of positive results with high Ct are difficult to interpret in the absence of clinical history and context.’


https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/cycle-threshold-ct-in-sars-cov-2-rt-pcr


Now is it really that difficult to see why some of us have questions about the daily data we are being given??
This government are just as nutjobby as David Icke to be honest

I think they are far more sinister.
Anyway, interesting, isn’t it?
 
I think they are far more sinister.
Anyway, interesting, isn’t it?
You only need to look around us in Europe to see where we are going. This is no surprise unfortunately.

Full lockdown was what dramatically reduced the spread last time and it is the only thing which will do it this time.

It will arguably be too late, the impact on the healthcare system may well show us that.

The damage to the economy and individual livelihoods going forward is a very frightening thought but we will be left with no other option.

The King Canutes will gradually become quieter.
 
Back
Top