Conservative Campaign HQ employees enjoying a law breaking Christmas party in December 2020

Laughing said:
Let's start with paragraph 1. You think that the Tories are scrapping amongst themselves because they will win the election and they already know this?

It's nonsense Billy.

You then use that as the basis for your other assertions, which is also wrong. Neither tory party members not Labour Party members decide an election. Elections are decided by about 250k swing voters who are not particularly aligned with any party.

I could go on but everything you said its inherently wrong.
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I don’t think the tories will slam dunk the next election.

I think a number of tories think they have the next election in the bag, and therefore don’t care what the optics are. I also think some other tories are hell bent on conflict because they don’t believe brexit was hard enough, and that there are enough voters who agree with them who will support hem in the next election. It’s a weird fook3d up Tory party venn diagram.

Those same tories also know that they don’t actually need to beat Labour in the next general election, they just need to beat the 40% of Labour voters that will actually vote.

The Tories have done a better job getting Tories to vote, than labour have done pulling the labour vote around one candidate.

Swing voters are obviously important, but I don’t think either party knows how to tap into them, and are focussed on getting the core voter to vote.

I guess I count myself in the swing voter category, as I voted Labour, not because I support labour, but because I fooking hate the tories and everything they have done. Many people just didn’t vote at all.
 
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Billy69_uk said:
I don’t think the tories will slam dunk the next election.

I think a number of tories think they have the next election in the bag, and therefore don’t care what the optics are. I also think some other tories are hell bent on conflict because they don’t believe brexit was hard enough, and that there are enough voters who agree with them who will support hem in the next election. It’s a weird fook3d up Tory party venn diagram.

Those same tories also know that they don’t actually need to beat Labour in the next general election, they just need to beat the 40% of Labour voters that will actually vote.

The Tories have done a better job getting Tories to vote, than labour have done pulling the labour vote around one candidate.

Swing voters are obviously important, but I don’t think either party knows how to tap into them, and are focussed on getting the core voter to vote.

I guess I count myself in the swing voter category, as I voted Labour, not because I support labour, but because I fooking hate the tories and everything they have done. Many people just didn’t vote at all.
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In which case it's all nonsense. Not a single tory think the next election is a slam dunk.

As I said tory and labour members don't decide elections, a small handful of strategically placed swing voters do. It doesn't matter whether the tories are better at mobalizing their voters, as had been shown in by elections and local elections.

Despite what some say, most of the electorate are not fools.
 
Easterside_Red said:
I had no 'hopes' as you patronisingly put it. I changed the thread title to appease you and your sensitivity but I won't do that again.
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I wasn't being sensitive. I thought the original title was out of order for what I thought was supposed to be an inclusive message board. It looked as though you were having a go at all tory voters and not just the handful involved in the Xmas parties. Change it back if you want and if that was in fact your intention.

You are a new member of the board and I thought you had maybe misjudged what it is about. Though possibly you have actually judged it better than me.

With regard my patronising question, you yourself said that the thread deteriorated and that you got distracted. So I wondered where you intended to go with it before you got distracted.
 
Rofesleg said:
It looked as though you were having a go at all tory voters and not just the handful involved in the Xmas parties.
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I don't believe I stated or even inferred criticism of all or indeed any Tory voters to be honest. The linked report clearly refers to employees of, and advisors to, the Conservative Party. I think this has been supported by at least one other poster.
Rofesleg said:
So I wondered where you intended to go with it before you got distracted.
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You initially asked where I 'hoped' the thread would go which is what I took exception to. Where I 'hoped' it wouldn't go to was a descent into arguments about Left, Centre and Right elements of the Labour Party.

Where I 'intended' it to go was into further criticism of anyone who in my mind 'took the pi$$' during the period in question. It seems that group is made up of, to a large extent, associates of the Conservative Party.

Where Conservative voters come into this is through their tacit approval of what was going on. Deflection, ignorance, obfuscation and lies are actions that come to mind.
 
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Easterside_Red said:
I don't believe I stated or even inferred criticism of all or indeed any Tory voters to be honest. The linked report clearly refers to employees of, and advisors to, the Conservative Party. I think this has been supported by at least one other poster.

You initially asked where I 'hoped' the thread would go which is what I took exception to. Where I 'hoped' it wouldn't go to was a descent into arguments about Left, Centre and Right elements of the Labour Party.

Where I 'intended' it to go was into further criticism of anyone in my mind who 'took the pi$$' during the period in question. It seems that group is made up of, to a large extent, associates of the Conservative Party.

Where Conservative voters come into this is through their tacit approval of what was going on. Deflection, ignorance, obfuscation and lies are actions that come to mind.
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Your last sentence there again paints all tory voters with the same brush, which was what I originally objected to. I would think a lot of people who voted tory will be equally annoyed and disgusted with what happened after they voted.

There does seem to be a handful of posters intent on developing a forum on which only certain points of view are acceptable.
Eventually that will drive existing posters away and prevent a lot of new posters from joining. Especially if they see threads with titles similar to the original of this thread.
.
 
Rofesleg said:
Your last sentence there again paints all tory voters with the same brush, which was what I originally objected to. I would think a lot of people who voted tory will be equally annoyed and disgusted with what happened after they voted.
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Reflecting locally, you clearly don't follow the social media posts made by Vickers, Young, Clarke and Houchen and nor the comments made in response by Tory voters. Nationally, and after all that has happened, Tory support in opinion polls is holding up at a consistent 30%. So I would aim any critical comments at that very large group of Tory voters. If you think I'm generalising, fair enough, but I don't have the inclination to seek out the Tory voters who are 'equally annoyed and disgusted' because I don't think there's that many of them.

Rofesleg said:
There does seem to be a handful of posters intent on developing a forum on which only certain points of view are acceptable.
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That's just not true at all. The first page is full of a varied range of topics and all well contributed to.

Rofesleg said:
Eventually that will drive existing posters away and prevent a lot of new posters from joining. Especially if they see threads with titles similar to the original of this thread.
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So we're back to the original thread title again? Which I have already quite clearly demonstated was not aimed at Tory voters.
 
Easterside_Red said:
Reflecting locally, you clearly don't follow the social media posts made by Vickers, Young, Clarke and Houchen and nor the comments made in response by Tory voters. Nationally, and after all that has happened, Tory support in opinion polls is holding up at a consistent 30%. So I would aim any critical comments at that very large group of Tory voters. If you think I'm generalising, fair enough, but I don't have the inclination to seek out the Tory voters who are 'equally annoyed and disgusted' because I don't think there's that many of them.


That's just not true at all. The first page is full of a varied range of topics and all well contributed to.


So we're back to the original thread title again? Which I have already quite clearly demonstated was not aimed at Tory voters.
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Maybe I'm missing the point of the board.
I joined twenty years ago to discuss mainly football. You seemed to have joined 2 months ago to talk about tory voters and to promote Labour.
On this forum I don't care who voted for who, their reasons for that vote or the % support for each party in opinion polls.
I also don't want posters to leave because they are made to feel unwelcome. Which has happened.

With regard to the thread title, who it was aimed for and how it came across are two different things. I only brought it up again because you said that you changed it because of my sensitivity.
If that was the only reason then change it back. My opinion is that it was divisive but you and at least one other think not.
 
Rofesleg said:
I also don't want posters to leave because they are made to feel unwelcome. Which has happened.
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People come and go. Some are missed, some not so much. So what? Nobody appointed you Chief of Police. It is up to Admin if they think personal invective has crossed the line.

If you are of a Tory persuasion there is absolutely no need to get involved in political discussions there are a whole world of discussions on here about every subject you could think of (if there isn't one on the optimum carburation of the Ford Essex V6 you can start one) and no one need know. But if you pipe up with a pro-Con view you can absolutely expect to attract the ire of people who are not enamoured of our present overlords. 13 years of corruption and incompetence with people feeling the pinch and having lost friends and relatives during the pandemic will tend to precipitate that.

Also, the RWNJ line is often the method of attack taken by frequently banned trolls so a vitriolic response is as much a product of their "hilarious wind ups" as any "Leftie Agenda"
 
Muttley said:
People come and go. Some are missed, some not so much. So what? Nobody appointed you Chief of Police. It is up to Admin if they think personal invective has crossed the line.

If you are of a Tory persuasion there is absolutely no need to get involved in political discussions there are a whole world of discussions on here about every subject you could think of (if there isn't one on the optimum carburation of the Ford Essex V6 you can start one) and no one need know. But if you pipe up with a pro-Con view you can absolutely expect to attract the ire of people who are not enamoured of our present overlords. 13 years of corruption and incompetence with people feeling the pinch and having lost friends and relatives during the pandemic will tend to precipitate that.

Also, the RWNJ line is often the method of attack taken by frequently banned trolls so a vitriolic response is as much a product of their "hilarious wind ups" as any "Leftie Agenda"
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You're right, I'm not Chief of Police and never said I was anything of the sort.
I didn't ask or demand that the thread title be changed. I just pointed out that I thought it was OTT and could be divisive on what I thought was an inclusive board.
Easterside_Red confirmed this wasn't the intention and changed it.

That was fine but I was then asked if I was a tory because of that. Then we were told that all Tory voters are scum. That they voted only because of the little boats and most are racist.
They are the sort of divisive posts I think are harmful to this board. Admin might think differently as may the majority of posters.

People do come and go, but when they start going because they aren't made welcome due to having a different point of view then that is something to be looked at.

And where did I pipe up with a pro-Con view by the way? And where did I use the RWNJ line?
 
Laughing said:
Despite what some say, most of the electorate are not fools.
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Brexit says what now?

They might not technically be fools, but a large amount have certainly been fooled on multiple occasions, and will almost certainly fall for the same or similar nonsense again.

Substitute the £350 million a week NHS red bus for "stop the boats", etc etc
 
Rofesleg said:
Your last sentence there again paints all tory voters with the same brush, which was what I originally objected to. I would think a lot of people who voted tory will be equally annoyed and disgusted with what happened after they voted.


.
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fair point, but will they be disgusted enough not to vote Tory next time, or just mildly disgusted, and still vote Tory because they couldnt bring themselves to vote Labour?
 
Rofesleg said:
And where did I pipe up with a pro-Con view by the way? And where did I use the RWNJ line?
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You didn't and I didn't mean to infer that you did!

I was commenting on the way in which some RW posters take the huff. If I go into a new social setting there is no way that I would open my first conversation with "what a good job Boris/Keir is doing" yet so many seem to think that they can post an opinion and expect people not to offer an alternative but to simply bow to their illuminating contribution. Then we get the accusations of a "Leftie Pile On" when all that is happening is that you have posted something that a lot of the board disagree with.

Advice to new posters, take some time to read the room.

I do agree that some of the "all Tories are scum" posts are a OTT and unhelpful.
 
Muttley said:
You didn't and I didn't mean to infer that you did!

I was commenting on the way in which some RW posters take the huff. If I go into a new social setting there is no way that I would open my first conversation with "what a good job Boris/Keir is doing" yet so many seem to think that they can post an opinion and expect people not to offer an alternative but to simply bow to their illuminating contribution. Then we get the accusations of a "Leftie Pile On" when all that is happening is that you have posted something that a lot of the board disagree with.

Advice to new posters, take some time to read the room.

I do agree that some of the "all Tories are scum" posts are a OTT and unhelpful.
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Apologies - I misunderstood.
 
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