r00fie1
Well-known member
"....but for the millions of people already living here who don't want to share the scraps..."(?)
Who?
Which "millions"?
Why dont they want to "share the scraps"?
Which "scraps"?
Where do the "scraps" come from?
Channel Migrants (Admin advisory. Contains disturbing image and repulsive views)
- Thread starter Train Guy
- Start date
"....but for the millions of people already living here who don't want to share the scraps..."(?)
Who?
Which "millions"?
Why dont they want to "share the scraps"?
Which "scraps"?
Where do the "scraps" come from?
ForssAwakens
Well-known member
What do you mean by scraps? Immigrants won’t effect their income
LaPennaBianca
Well-known member
Rich coming from a fella who just the other day, as a valiant defender of the working class, said I opposed Brexit because my strawberries would be more expensive?
And I'm not confusing owt, you're the one who - at any given opportunity - will spout off at about how too many of the wrong sort of people have made British 'slums' worse.
So please don't play the rational mathematician card. You're opinions aren't half as nuanced as you think.
HundredRoom
Well-known member
The international rule of applying for asylum in the first safe country needs to be scrapped.
For obvious reasons.
For obvious reasons.
R
redneck
Guest
There is no legal requirement for a refugee to claim asylum in any particular country. Neither the 1951 Refugee Convention nor EU law requires a refugee to claim asylum in one country rather than another. There is no rule requiring refugees to claim in the first safe country in which they arrive.
Adi_Dem
Well-known member
Migrants and asylum seekers are of course different things and yet the two are conflated and have been conflated on this thread. Asylum seekers flee unimaginable conditions to seek a better life. We can and we should help these people. I'd have thought it a no brainer and yet we still have ignorant and abhorrent comments from some neanderthals.
In relation to genuine migrants, we had a perfectly reasonable, sensible and proportionate immmigration control tool at our disposal in relation to EU nationals. We chose not to implement controls. Why? Because the economic cost of doing so to stop the very, very few that were outside of the rules and therefore didn't provide a net economic benefit to the country or couldn't pay their way cost more than it saved. Leaving the EU does not solve any immigration 'problem'. In fact it causes more of a problem than it solves.
It has been shown many, many times that migration to this country has had a net positive economic effect and yet we still have ignorant arguments that simply don't stand up to scrutiny. Wage compression is very limited to a handful of industries and is usually relatively small in scope and short lived. There is absolutely no evidence that immigration is causing a strain on any public services or on housing. What the evidence does show is that immigrants tend to be of working age and tend to contribute to the economy and even though they do make greater use of education they make less use of social housing or health services. Their presence here therefore adds more to tax revenue to fund public services that they themselves tend not to use. Not to mention that the very services that people complain about being strained by immigration are propped up and held together by immigrants.
This country's current government has been systematically removing wealth from the people and giving it to the 1%. It continues to happen now. Brexit was an example and the scandalous management of the pandemic in ths country has done the same thing. All the while this swindle has been going on they have been villifying immigrants and benefits claimants for taking people's opportunities, wealth and public services through a large scale media campaign waged over decades. There is little wonder that these sorts of attitudes and this level of ignorance exist.
In relation to genuine migrants, we had a perfectly reasonable, sensible and proportionate immmigration control tool at our disposal in relation to EU nationals. We chose not to implement controls. Why? Because the economic cost of doing so to stop the very, very few that were outside of the rules and therefore didn't provide a net economic benefit to the country or couldn't pay their way cost more than it saved. Leaving the EU does not solve any immigration 'problem'. In fact it causes more of a problem than it solves.
It has been shown many, many times that migration to this country has had a net positive economic effect and yet we still have ignorant arguments that simply don't stand up to scrutiny. Wage compression is very limited to a handful of industries and is usually relatively small in scope and short lived. There is absolutely no evidence that immigration is causing a strain on any public services or on housing. What the evidence does show is that immigrants tend to be of working age and tend to contribute to the economy and even though they do make greater use of education they make less use of social housing or health services. Their presence here therefore adds more to tax revenue to fund public services that they themselves tend not to use. Not to mention that the very services that people complain about being strained by immigration are propped up and held together by immigrants.
This country's current government has been systematically removing wealth from the people and giving it to the 1%. It continues to happen now. Brexit was an example and the scandalous management of the pandemic in ths country has done the same thing. All the while this swindle has been going on they have been villifying immigrants and benefits claimants for taking people's opportunities, wealth and public services through a large scale media campaign waged over decades. There is little wonder that these sorts of attitudes and this level of ignorance exist.
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Michael_Vronsky
Well-known member
Exactly right and well said. Pure ignorance by the usual suspects on here.
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Some welcome sense.
BoroFur
Well-known member
I must have written a dozen posts on this thread and the lot of them combined can't get anywhere near the eloquence and clarity of this single post.
Sometimes (and only sometimes) I'm glad when Adi_Dem turns up on a thread
People complaining about asylum seekers/immigrants not being welcome because they will be housed in already poverty stricken slum areas, possibly already high in unemployment with anti social behaviour problems, high crime levels and sharing the scraps that they are being forced to live off need to look at who was/is responsible for all this. It certainly was NOT the asylum seeker or immigrant..
Second Mate says in response to my post about allowing the dinghy people to land so that they can be processed that it is not practical as the cost is too high. Well all I can say to that is the cost will be a lot higher having Border Force vessels, and now Royal Navy Vessels on patrol, taking the RN vessels away from their other duties will be a lot higher. These highly trained seamen in high tech ships already cost a lot to train, feed, pay, and maintain their ships. I would rather that money was spent where it was meant to be spent- protecting the country from our potential enemies, not plucking some women and children from dinghies and taking them back to France. Because you know what? Those people will be back again- next month-next week, whenever. Because they are desperate- they have nothing to lose having already lost everything. So let's listen to what they have to say. Let's see what skills they have that would benefit our country. Many of them already have language skills, speaking at least two languages. And if someone can escape from a repressive regime or war zone with nothing but the clothes they stand up in, cross continents and make their way to their destination, then they are already very exceptional human beings.
Second Mate says in response to my post about allowing the dinghy people to land so that they can be processed that it is not practical as the cost is too high. Well all I can say to that is the cost will be a lot higher having Border Force vessels, and now Royal Navy Vessels on patrol, taking the RN vessels away from their other duties will be a lot higher. These highly trained seamen in high tech ships already cost a lot to train, feed, pay, and maintain their ships. I would rather that money was spent where it was meant to be spent- protecting the country from our potential enemies, not plucking some women and children from dinghies and taking them back to France. Because you know what? Those people will be back again- next month-next week, whenever. Because they are desperate- they have nothing to lose having already lost everything. So let's listen to what they have to say. Let's see what skills they have that would benefit our country. Many of them already have language skills, speaking at least two languages. And if someone can escape from a repressive regime or war zone with nothing but the clothes they stand up in, cross continents and make their way to their destination, then they are already very exceptional human beings.
r00fie1
Well-known member
Too ******* right
They could teach some of those skills to our couch potatoes and motivate others to get off their arz`s.
Its time we had Duke of Edinburgh Awards for Adults: courses in practical activities for daily living: learning survival skills and leadership to build effective teams.
I`de like to attend any events where those refugees describe their experiences and overcame the barriers.
Excellent post.
I have to say, some parts of this discussion remind me of the old anecdote:
A billionaire, a worker and an immigrant are sitting at a table with 100 cookies on it. The billionaire takes 99 of the cookies, turns to the worker and says, "Watch out, that immigrant's going to take your cookie."
A billionaire, a worker and an immigrant are sitting at a table with 100 cookies on it. The billionaire takes 99 of the cookies, turns to the worker and says, "Watch out, that immigrant's going to take your cookie."
Colgates_shaving_foam
Well-known member
That's right at the heart of the problem, he really believes he's making a legitimate point. It's sad but that's what we're dealing with
ticker_tape
Well-known member
Hopefully he will save lives.
SmallTown
Well-known member
By sinking the dinghies?
Boro_is_in_my_blood
Member
Turn them around to where exactly? And that is not dealing with the problem as they will only try crossing again and the death toll will actually rise.
Ive read only through the first two pages of comments but its clear there are some disturbingly blinkered views (aka the racist ones and the 'sink them' ones).
I was having a good think about it the other day and there is another evil at play which fuels these kinds of views...the media.
Its always worth remembering that the people who have these warped views have likely just been more susceptible to the endless amount of lies and hatred spewed at them from the news papers and Facebook groups. These people genuinely belive that immigrants are going to steal their beloved England and they will be paying them money out of their own pockets.
Its also important to not be completely naive in thinking that lots of early 20s males aren't coming over to exploit the system. It does actually happen, just not in anywhere near the volume the media will have you believe.
The few immigrant families i know are all solid, hard working people. They actually can't believe how much opportunity there is to earn a living and live a happy life here.
The people that really get up my nose are the people who have been on benefits for the last 20 years because they are too lazy to go to work. Who are themselves spreading hatred because they are coming to 'steal our jobs'.
The main point is, i highly doubt that the majority of people in this country are cold hearted enough to deny asylum to people suffering horrendous conditions (nobody in this world could look at the picture on the front page and not feel compassion). Its just they have had their minds warped by the overwhelming amount of negative (and uncontrolled) media in this country.
Educate, not hate.
I was having a good think about it the other day and there is another evil at play which fuels these kinds of views...the media.
Its always worth remembering that the people who have these warped views have likely just been more susceptible to the endless amount of lies and hatred spewed at them from the news papers and Facebook groups. These people genuinely belive that immigrants are going to steal their beloved England and they will be paying them money out of their own pockets.
Its also important to not be completely naive in thinking that lots of early 20s males aren't coming over to exploit the system. It does actually happen, just not in anywhere near the volume the media will have you believe.
The few immigrant families i know are all solid, hard working people. They actually can't believe how much opportunity there is to earn a living and live a happy life here.
The people that really get up my nose are the people who have been on benefits for the last 20 years because they are too lazy to go to work. Who are themselves spreading hatred because they are coming to 'steal our jobs'.
The main point is, i highly doubt that the majority of people in this country are cold hearted enough to deny asylum to people suffering horrendous conditions (nobody in this world could look at the picture on the front page and not feel compassion). Its just they have had their minds warped by the overwhelming amount of negative (and uncontrolled) media in this country.
Educate, not hate.
anonn
Well-known member
Short thread on events of 7 March 1991, when the 90,000 people of Brindisi woke up to find 25,000 Albanians roaming the streets of their town. For perspective, that's roughly equivalent to 25k people suddenly landing in Hastings.
At 10 a.m. on Thursday 7 March 1991, the cargo ship 'Lirja' enters the port of Brindisi carrying 5,000 Albanians fleeing their homeland. They'd taken over the ship in the port of Durrës & forced the crew to sail to Italy. At noon, another ship 'Tirana' arrives carrying 6,000.
In the afternoon, yet another ship, 'Apollonia', along with several fishing boats. Then, in the evening, the final ship, 'Legend'. Italian Coast Guard ships offshore decide not to intervene & block the vessels as they're all in precarious condition and dangerously overloaded.
Any intervention to push back the ships could result in them capsizing & thousands of people drowning, so they are let through. As they arrive in the port, people make the sign of victory & shout "Italia, Italia!"
As soon as the ships dock, desperate people shin down the mooring ropes or jump into the water to swim ashore. The dockside is packed with dirty, hungry, shivering men, women & children. It is very cold & a light rain is falling.
The Italian state is totally unprepared for this emergency & local authorities are left to cope alone. Red Cross volunteers hand out food parcels & plastic sheeting to shelter from the rain but supplies are limited & they are swamped. Many people are suffering from dysentery.
During the night pressure grows among the refugees to get out of the overcrowded dock and, once they start to push their way out or climb the fences, the Police & Carabinieri on duty sensibly do nothing to stop them but regulate the flow of people to avoid a stampede.
By daybreak the city of Brindisi has at least 25,000 Albanian refugees wandering its streets. The Mayor of the city, Giuseppe Marchionna (photo), realises that the situation could get out of hand. If desperate hungry people break into a food shop, violence could ensue.
Marchionna knows his people well and so he quickly records a message to be broadcast on all local TV & radio stations. It is sent out at 8 a.m. & then every 15 minutes for the rest of the day. The message is simple, "They are just hungry and cold, help them."
The first signs that his message is working come in mid-morning as people throw bags full of food to the refugees from their balconies. Gradually, after this timid start, local people begin to open up to the Albanian refugees.
People give them money to call their families & reassure them and to buy food. They give them clothes to replace the dirty rags they are wearing. They let them use their showers & phones and make them meals. People with spare rooms take in women & children.
Things begin to get more organised, even though the central government sends no help until 12 March. Whole buildings organise canteens in their basements or garages, 36 schools are requisitioned to house refugees, more & more people open up their houses to take them in.
Finally, after 3 weeks, the government sends in the army, most of the refugees are transferred to Palermo, Capua & Udine. A call centre is set up and receives hundreds of calls from all over Italy offering to house refugees.
Most of them made their lives in Italy & still live here. Others made their fortune & returned home once their country was free. They certainly all recall the solidarity of Brindisi, thanks to those simple words of humanity, "they are just hungry & cold, help them."
At 10 a.m. on Thursday 7 March 1991, the cargo ship 'Lirja' enters the port of Brindisi carrying 5,000 Albanians fleeing their homeland. They'd taken over the ship in the port of Durrës & forced the crew to sail to Italy. At noon, another ship 'Tirana' arrives carrying 6,000.
In the afternoon, yet another ship, 'Apollonia', along with several fishing boats. Then, in the evening, the final ship, 'Legend'. Italian Coast Guard ships offshore decide not to intervene & block the vessels as they're all in precarious condition and dangerously overloaded.
Any intervention to push back the ships could result in them capsizing & thousands of people drowning, so they are let through. As they arrive in the port, people make the sign of victory & shout "Italia, Italia!"
As soon as the ships dock, desperate people shin down the mooring ropes or jump into the water to swim ashore. The dockside is packed with dirty, hungry, shivering men, women & children. It is very cold & a light rain is falling.
The Italian state is totally unprepared for this emergency & local authorities are left to cope alone. Red Cross volunteers hand out food parcels & plastic sheeting to shelter from the rain but supplies are limited & they are swamped. Many people are suffering from dysentery.
During the night pressure grows among the refugees to get out of the overcrowded dock and, once they start to push their way out or climb the fences, the Police & Carabinieri on duty sensibly do nothing to stop them but regulate the flow of people to avoid a stampede.
By daybreak the city of Brindisi has at least 25,000 Albanian refugees wandering its streets. The Mayor of the city, Giuseppe Marchionna (photo), realises that the situation could get out of hand. If desperate hungry people break into a food shop, violence could ensue.
Marchionna knows his people well and so he quickly records a message to be broadcast on all local TV & radio stations. It is sent out at 8 a.m. & then every 15 minutes for the rest of the day. The message is simple, "They are just hungry and cold, help them."
The first signs that his message is working come in mid-morning as people throw bags full of food to the refugees from their balconies. Gradually, after this timid start, local people begin to open up to the Albanian refugees.
People give them money to call their families & reassure them and to buy food. They give them clothes to replace the dirty rags they are wearing. They let them use their showers & phones and make them meals. People with spare rooms take in women & children.
Things begin to get more organised, even though the central government sends no help until 12 March. Whole buildings organise canteens in their basements or garages, 36 schools are requisitioned to house refugees, more & more people open up their houses to take them in.
Finally, after 3 weeks, the government sends in the army, most of the refugees are transferred to Palermo, Capua & Udine. A call centre is set up and receives hundreds of calls from all over Italy offering to house refugees.
Most of them made their lives in Italy & still live here. Others made their fortune & returned home once their country was free. They certainly all recall the solidarity of Brindisi, thanks to those simple words of humanity, "they are just hungry & cold, help them."
Steve_Wilkos
Member
Haha
Racism = few days off.
Wasn't someone banned permenantly for asking if they would 'plough' certain women?
The hypocrisy towards the clique is outstanding.