Can you admit that Southgate is doing a great job yet?

Laughing said:
I keep revisiting to see if we have reached consensus about Southgate. It seems we are no closer to deciding whether he is the best in a generation, average at best or a perennial loser.

Spoiler, he is the best England have had in my footballing life.
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I was going to say Robby Bobson was best in mine, but 1988 euros was an horrendous tournament and little early for me but 1984 they didn’t qualify. World Cup wise 86 quarter final and 90 is why I thought he was great.

Maybe El Tel challenges for his one tournament, but Southgate I think gets my vote for best England manager in my lifetime too!
 
smoggs03 said:
I was going to say Robby Bobson was best in mine, but 1988 euros was an horrendous tournament and little early for me but 1984 they didn’t qualify. World Cup wise 86 quarter final and 90 is why I thought he was great.

Maybe El Tel challenges for his one tournament, but Southgate I think gets my vote for best England manager in my lifetime too!
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Tel managed England to just two competitive victories in 90 minutes, both at home. Three if you include a very lucky win v Spain. Out of 5 matches.

I’m not saying he was rubbish or anything but I personally don’t think he is anywhere near the conversation about who is/was best. It was too short a time to judge really.
 
atypical_boro said:
Tel managed England to just two competitive victories in 90 minutes, both at home. Three if you include a very lucky win v Spain. Out of 5 matches.

I’m not saying he was rubbish or anything but I personally don’t think he is anywhere near the conversation about who is/was best. It was too short a time to judge really.
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I think a lot of it is not necessarily rose tinted, but more based in the fact we genuinely felt we could win Euro 96.

We'd beaten Scotland, demolished the Dutch and beaten Spain on pens, though admittedly we had our share of luck that game.

Then we met Germany and were the better team. That moment Gazza was literally a stud away from putting us through to the final, where I believe we'd have beaten the Czechs.

IIRC we only ever lost one game under Tel, though that stat is a little misleading in some respects because we drew loads too.

Still generally a tournament I remember very fondly as a then 18 year old watching the games in the pub, apart from the Germany game that I watched with my late Dad.
 
WeeGord said:
I think a lot of it is not necessarily rose tinted, but more based in the fact we genuinely felt we could win Euro 96.

We'd beaten Scotland, demolished the Dutch and beaten Spain on pens, though admittedly we had our share of luck that game.

Then we met Germany and were the better team. That moment Gazza was literally a stud away from putting us through to the final, where I believe we'd have beaten the Czechs.

IIRC we only ever lost one game under Tel, though that stat is a little misleading in some respects because we drew loads too.

Still generally a tournament I remember very fondly as a then 18 year old watching the games in the pub, apart from the Germany game that I watched with my late Dad.
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I have very fond memories of the tournament, for sure, but even though we trounced the Dutch, deep down I never thought we’d get past the Germans, even after Shearer put us 1 up. We did come close though, obviously.
 
atypical_boro said:
I have very fond memories of the tournament, for sure, but even though we trounced the Dutch, deep down I never thought we’d get past the Germans, even after Shearer put us 1 up. We did come close though, obviously.
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During that period we never felt like we could beat the Germans. It was a problem for multiple managers at the time, excepting hoddle and he was just a fruitcake, for sure.
 
I know this thread is like many others on the board, it has to either black or white with no grey areas allowed.

However, last night wasn't a vintage Italy, I don't see how them being 4 time world cup winners has any bearing on last night? We beat a decent but certainly not great Italy.

On the other hand, thats not taking anything away from us. We were good again last night and found another gear in the second half when it was needed. Southgate has got us on par with the best teams in the world now and we have genuine world class players in Kane and Bellingham.
 
Bellingham is absolutely class. Resembled Zidane at times last night. Genuine World Class player who has the potential to be the World's Best. The only Englishman with that sort of talent in my lifetime.
 
Uwefuchs said:
However, last night wasn't a vintage Italy, I don't see how them being 4 time world cup winners has any bearing on last night? We beat a decent but certainly not great Italy.
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They aren't title challengers right now, but still a top 10 sides, just. Still capable of beating anyone and still stubborn defensively.

It was a very good performance and the fact we now expect to beat them, tells us just as much about the progression of our squad as it does about the fall of theirs.
 
BoroMart said:
They aren't title challengers right now, but still a top 10 sides, just. Still capable of beating anyone and still stubborn defensively.

It was a very good performance and the fact we now expect to beat them, tells us just as much about the progression of our squad as it does about the fall of theirs.
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They'll probably get out of their group in the euros but I think they look a last 16/ last 8 team at a push.

I know you'll think any criticism of Italy will be used to take away from England but that's not the case. Italy isn't producing the players it did in the past. Italian football is going through a transition period at the moment.
 
Uwefuchs said:
They'll probably get out of their group in the euros but I think they look a last 16/ last 8 team at a push.

I know you'll think any criticism of Italy will be used to take away from England but that's not the case. Italy isn't producing the players it did in the past. Italian football is going through a transition period at the moment.
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Bang on.

They've been poor for a number of years.

Their lack of qualifying for tournaments over the last few even show this.
 
Marvanelli said:
Bang on.

They've been poor for a number of years.

Their lack of qualifying for tournaments over the last few even show this.
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Aside from when they won the last Euros eh? 🤦🏻‍♂️

The delusion in some English fans is unbelievable. You’ve had golden generations before, you’ve had world class managers before, absolutely none of them have gotten you anywhere near as close as Southgate has. And suddenly, you’re a better side with an inherent right to beat Italy who’ve won the Euros 2 times and World Cup 4 times?

You honestly sound like Mackems.
 
Scrug said:
Aside from when they won the last Euros eh? 🤦🏻‍♂️
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If you look into their Euro's win, they weren't the best team in the tournament.

The record books show Italy as the winners, but closer inspection, they weren't great and were very fortunate to make the final, then win it on penalties.

They beat Austria in the last 16....needing Extra Time.

They played Belgium in the Quarters and won narrowly, 2-1, when it could've easily gone the other way.

They then played Spain in the Semi's and if it wasn't for Spain's awful finishing, then they're have lost in normal time. Spain did everything but score enough. They dominated the game, had the biggest chances but couldn't convert. As it happens, Italy won a penalty shoot out to make the final.

Then against us in the final, if we played Jude over Mount (as a lot on here were begging Southgate to do) or if we were more aggressive in that first half, when we had them on the ropes, then we would have put them out of sight. As it happens, Southgate sat back and tried to defend a 1-0 lead which helped Italy get a foot into the game resulting in a 1-1, taking it to penalties.

Italy won yet another penalty shoot out to win the Euro's.

Facts are - 2 penalty shoot out wins, 1 extra time win, in 4 KO matches.

Luck definitely played it's part and fair play to them, they got the rub of the green during that tournament. Most winners need a large slice of luck to go their win as KO football is often decided on fine margins.

But let's not kid ourselves that they're a great team and that they were the best team in that tournament.
 
I have spent some time reading this thread, goodness me there are a good few mares kicking about, more than Appleby horse fair.

Respect to Sir Gareth. I have been one of a small band of people who have stuck up for him since he first took up management. When he was getting pelters for recruitment that wasn’t down to him (see a few ex players on podcasts confirming it, Leroy Lita I think the latest). The cost cutting that was applied from the top caused his downfall ultimately, sacked unfairly, scapegoated by the fans and internally to appease the fans. I said then he‘d become England manager all those years ago.

Tis true he hasn’t won a trophy, but he has built up the squad to be such a close knit supportive team of teams. He has worked wonders. He has some quality to work with, but defensively we are a bit light. He places huge emphasis on trust, he sticks up for his players and they fight for him as a Head Coach, man manager. What a man. It is a pleasure to have had him as a player and Head Coach at Boro and watch him evolve into the best coach England has had ever imho. I understand the fact Ramsey won a World Cup, but Southgate has been so consistent. I think he will walk away with his head held high after the Euros whatever happens and will walk into an ambassadorial role with the F.A. rather than become a club manager.

Forever a legend in my eyes, I genuinely hope a knighthood beckons as he deserves the title Sir Gareth as much as any other sportsman in Football. Top man, huge respect, a class act.
 
Marvanelli said:
If you look into their Euro's win, they weren't the best team in the tournament.

The record books show Italy as the winners, but closer inspection, they weren't great and were very fortunate to make the final, then win it on penalties.

They beat Austria in the last 16....needing Extra Time.

They played Belgium in the Quarters and won narrowly, 2-1, when it could've easily gone the other way.

They then played Spain in the Semi's and if it wasn't for Spain's awful finishing, then they're have lost in normal time. Spain did everything but score enough. They dominated the game, had the biggest chances but couldn't convert. As it happens, Italy won a penalty shoot out to make the final.

Then against us in the final, if we played Jude over Mount (as a lot on here were begging Southgate to do) or if we were more aggressive in that first half, when we had them on the ropes, then we would have put them out of sight. As it happens, Southgate sat back and tried to defend a 1-0 lead which helped Italy get a foot into the game resulting in a 1-1, taking it to penalties.

Italy won yet another penalty shoot out to win the Euro's.

Facts are - 2 penalty shoot out wins, 1 extra time win, in 4 KO matches.

Luck definitely played it's part and fair play to them, they got the rub of the green during that tournament. Most winners need a large slice of luck to go their win as KO football is often decided on fine margins.

But let's not kid ourselves that they're a great team and that they were the best team in that tournament.
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Completely ignoring the fact they'd just set an all time record going back around 150 years of football for an international team going unbeaten. About 35 games wasn't it?
How anyone thinks that playing and beating a team that have been unbeatable for a period of years and dozens of games should be really easy astounds me
 
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