Can somebody give me a balanced view on Trump?

Andy_W said:
You're applying some false equivalence here though.

Someone who lies 1/100 and someone who lies 99/100 are both liars, but they are in no way the same thing.

The republican and democrats do work in the interests of the people, just different people, and with very different weighting.

Republicans work in the interests of rich people, those who like guns, and those who are quite aggro. In reality this is probably <5% of people. The reps target the gullible too.

Democrats work in the interest of the middle class, keep fairly quiet about the guns and are far less aggro. In reality this is probably >30% of people. The dems don't target the gullible so well.

You're right that the two party system doesn't suit, even less when it's only 6/7 states really deciding the election. But, you're never going to get a fair representation of what the people want and what they need, as people are extremely easy to influence and vote against their real needs. When you have poor people voting for rich man policies they have no chance.
Click to expand...
unfortunately a lot of voters don’t see the difference between someone who lies all the time and someone who lies once or twice. they are not the same thing.. but that’s not how people seem to react.

bad people are bad, good people can’t be bad.

bad people can’t do some good things.. good people have to do good things.. all the time.. they can’t do one bad thing.
 
As a result of conversations at work I can categorically tell you that the lack of political engagement is the reason that people will vote for chancers like Trump, Johnson and Farage. Stupidity plays a part, but I'll guarantee that what I know about Trump, his history, his ability, his misdemeanours, his lack of character etc is way more than most American voters know. There'll also be some who know about what he is and simply don't care or agree with him. A simple YouTube search will show you plenty of his hardcore supporters that'll simultaneously use twisted logic to defend him while revealing what is, if you're generous, a lack of critical thinking or if you're not being nice, absolute stupidity.
 
FabioPorkpie said:
For the best part of 9 years we’ve been told not to call these people stupid.
I’ve argued it myself countless times, even on here. In the past I have loudly said that it is counterproductive and further fuels the problem. Like you, I used to take that lofty moral high ground and believed that was the way to deal with the problem - through engagement, evidence, education, respectful discussion.
Yet after evidence, fact and reality being used by countless informed people, experts and decent folk, respectfully, over years and years, to demonstrate why the likes of Trump, Farage, Johnson, Brexit etc are wrong, we are STILL here.
Even when these chancers themselves actually show the world how truly vile they are, people don’t listen to them and continue to vote against their own best interests and the best interests of everybody else, for that matter.

I’m at the point where I’ve lost all hope now.
It’s like living in a recurring nightmare.
I feel like we are all screwed and rightly or wrongly, I’ve long given up debating these people in a reasonable way or trying to respectfully help them reject misinformation and lies. Years and years of pussyfooting around avoiding confrontation and politely treading on eggshells around them, not calling them stupid hasn’t changed a single F***ing thing. In fact, it’s got worse! If Johnson returned to politics tomorrow I wouldn’t be at all surprised if people in this country voted him back into power!
It’s completely soul destroying and utterly depressing. I am terrified of the world that my young children are inheriting from Boomers and our generation - Generation Stupid.
Click to expand...
Most of the stuff that people get upset about it out of their hands anyway. The difference between republican and democrat is not that much in real terms to the average person. We are the same.. we’re in the same boat. The left is always so fractured and dogmatic that it cannot move forward. Folks arguing over colours of protest vest while kids go hungry.

Common sense it lacking, awareness is lacking.. folks need to stop blaming people and start blaming the politicians.
 
Andy_W said:
You're not looking for an unbiased response, you seem to be asking for an illogical response, or one devoid of fact.



Sure, the stock market might go up, that might suit the top 5%, but at what cost to the 95%? It's a wider wealth divide, which doesn't need to be made wider.
Click to expand...

For a factual response 62% of Americans hold stocks.
 
Americans think their country and the world is a worse place than it was 4 years ago. That’s why he won.

You can’t blame them, it is.
 
Gains said:
Americans think their country and the world is a worse place than it was 4 years ago. That’s why he won.

You can’t blame them, it is.
Click to expand...
The insight seemed to be more on the side of they weren’t ready for a woman
 
newyddion said:
Lots of people jumping to conclusions and then believing those conclusions and then reinforcing their false narrative by making out that everyone who doesn’t agree with them is an idiot, a moron.. a racist.

I mean.. that’s part of it too. The democrats taking their supporters for granted.. taking the American people for mugs. Biden ran his campaign on being ‘not trump’ and people didn’t see enough of a change or a difference to justify that.

Then he overstayed his welcome.. and Harris had to run on being ‘not Biden’

It’s very simple and Trump seems to be king of simple. The democrats needed to do more, they needed to offer more.

In the end Trump just had to be ‘not the democrats’

- bit of a lesson for Labour in there. shape up or ship out.
Click to expand...
And what did Trump offer exactly? Apart from a trade war with China and mass deportations?
 
Most of the responses are from people who have no idea what the average American experiences. I’m sure those who visit the US don’t see the deprivation, the desperation, people living paycheck to paycheck - teachers, police, medical professionals working multiple jobs.

Globalisation has had the opposite impact on Americans that it’s had on the rest of the world. The average American struggling to pay bills, afford the gas for the car, access healthcare has been let down by government after government, the vast majority do not care about Ukraine (most don’t care about things happening outside their own state). What they did see was an improvement when Trump came into power - more jobs, more money.

Biden and his administration failed to improve the lot of the average American. They’d seen Trump do better, so when push comes to shove and the most important thing is proving for your family then it is no wonder the swing voters went for him.

You can argue all you want about character, sneer at the “thick” voters and how they can not look their children in the eye - every voter in the US is better placed to make their decision than anyone in a country 3000 miles away that has never spent anytime understanding the situation in the US. I have family over there, and I know how difficult it’s been for life long Democrats to face into the decision whether to vote for Trump - and they did, despite his character as they truly believe it was the best decision for their family, community and country.

Maybe instead of sneering condescension some of you should take the time and effort to dig deeper - you aren’t anywhere near as superior as you think you are.
 
1finny said:
The insight seemed to be more on the side of they weren’t ready for a woman
Click to expand...
Yea and I’ve also seen the race card played here. I think fundamentally she was front and centre of the last 4 years - and the sceptics haven’t liked what they saw.
 
Subbuteo_171 said:
afford the gas for the car,
Click to expand...
They have some of the cheapest petrol in the world apart from the ME oil states that give it away for free.

Subbuteo_171 said:
access healthcare has been let down by government after government
Click to expand...

They see anything other than private medicine as communism. No Trump voter for a centralised not-for-profit system. In fact they have voted in the person who will remove the only shreds of affordable health care they have.

Subbuteo_171 said:
, the vast majority do not care about Ukraine (most don’t care about things happening outside their own state)
Click to expand...
True. It seems like many Americans live in medieval villages and see anything beyond the horizon as the land of dragons.
 
Subbuteo_171 said:
Most of the responses are from people who have no idea what the average American experiences. I’m sure those who visit the US don’t see the deprivation, the desperation, people living paycheck to paycheck - teachers, police, medical professionals working multiple jobs.

Globalisation has had the opposite impact on Americans that it’s had on the rest of the world. The average American struggling to pay bills, afford the gas for the car, access healthcare has been let down by government after government, the vast majority do not care about Ukraine (most don’t care about things happening outside their own state). What they did see was an improvement when Trump came into power - more jobs, more money.

Biden and his administration failed to improve the lot of the average American. They’d seen Trump do better, so when push comes to shove and the most important thing is proving for your family then it is no wonder the swing voters went for him.

You can argue all you want about character, sneer at the “thick” voters and how they can not look their children in the eye - every voter in the US is better placed to make their decision than anyone in a country 3000 miles away that has never spent anytime understanding the situation in the US. I have family over there, and I know how difficult it’s been for life long Democrats to face into the decision whether to vote for Trump - and they did, despite his character as they truly believe it was the best decision for their family, community and country.

Maybe instead of sneering condescension some of you should take the time and effort to dig deeper - you aren’t anywhere near as superior as you think you are.
Click to expand...
Some good general points there.
I would just say senior US business leaders were on a call discussing the potential outcome on 29th Oct.
The view was it was too close to call but the intelligence was that many Americans simply had doubts about having a female leader.
 
Is it a version of this?

-"Taxes are bad, we all want more money huh?"
(So Trump/Republicans/Farage ensure there is a very small reduxtion on taxes on the poor and lower classes and a very high reduction on taxation on yhe rich). Thus creating a smaller national purse. Publicise loads of examples of "waste" in public services, grants to asylum seekers etc etc

- "We dont have loads of money and cant waste money on immigrants, who eat dogs, etc etc" (tapping into poor people's need for more money, and to less educated peoples lavk of knowledge of how natio al economies work/fear of other culrltures, boosting his vote, equating fairness and care with "the left"/commies/anyone else that is "woke")

- "We cant afford to give immigrants free health care. We all have to pay for it, thats fair" (which is why the rich then have extensive wonderful private health care from their low taxation and huge personal yield, and poor people have bills for 150,000 dollars for treatment for heart attacks (like my uncle, a hard working US labourer who has not a pot to p*ss in).

All happily supported by the rich owners of the US media.
 
ThePrisoner said:
They have some of the cheapest petrol in the world apart from the ME oil states that give it away for free.



They see anything other than private medicine as communism. No Trump voter for a centralised not-for-profit system. In fact they have voted in the person who will remove the only shreds of affordable health care they have.


True. It seems like many Americans live in medieval villages and see anything beyond the horizon as the land of dragons.
Click to expand...

Old bloke from provincial town across the Atlantic Ocean sneers at people he knows nothing about, convinced he is superior to them.

Congratulations.
 
DanBoro4499 said:
I'm seeing nothing but negativity - and i'm guessing in a lot of cases it's justified from some stuff ive read.

Rather shameful i know.....but i don't care much for politics, even in the UK.

But im seeing absolutely nothing but major negativity around Trump everywhere i look. Can somebody who is not completely against him (if anyone like that even exists on this board), give a clueless man like me the PROS and CONS of the next 4 years?

I'm not fishing for arguments, i just want to try and get a balanced view instead of all the bad stuff. Sure they'll be some benefits of him being president?
Click to expand...
Of course you are.
 
He's a dangerous demagogue.....models himself on Mussolini and admires Fascism. (They did get the trains running on time.)
With Musk acting as his Goebbels, these are very dangerous times.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top