Buy Gyokeres for any price?

[Chappy112]

(got 17 last year with no pens, in a poor Cov team)

I've noticed you say this a few times now, Coventry were very good last year, I believe only Fulham created more chances than they did. They played us off the park twice.

 

[Boro4life]

We need to sign 3 strikers 2 midfielders and 1 LCB we can't blow majority of our budget of 15-20 on Gyökeres

 

[viv_andersons_nana]

I've noticed you say this a few times now, Coventry were very good last year, I believe only Fulham created more chances than they did. They played us off the park twice.

Coventry are a good side and will probably think they’ve a chance of promotion if they keep Gyokores for at least another season. The job Mark Robins has done there is incredible really. You never really hear much about it though.

 

[BoroMart]

We need to sign 3 strikers 2 midfielders and 1 LCB we can't blow majority of our budget of 15-20 on Gyökeres

After hearing the FFP comments from Wilder the other night, I'm tending to agree. We could get Hoppe and Larsen combined for less than Gyokeres. We need 5 players, something has to give.

 

[lostinyorkshire]

After hearing the FFP comments from Wilder the other night, I'm tending to agree. We could get Hoppe and Larsen combined for less than Gyokeres. We need 5 players, something has to give.

Here in lies the problem. Buying players like Hoppe or players from the dutch league probably wont propell us into the promotion shake up.

Buying Goykores would.

 

[Simply red]

Cheers.
I left wages out, as we have cut a mass out in the players who have left.
I agree Gyokeres would want £40k per week for a 5 year deal, but am absolutely confident he would be delighted with that. He has no PL option right now and will earn a quarter of that at best at Coventry. He would walk here.
We would only pay add ons/bonuses if he and we had made the PL. They would then be a drop in the ocean of PL revenue and become a FFP write off/irelevance anyway. An element of those bonuses would be crossed by some of the add ons in the Spence/Tav deals.
The amortisation would be £9m across 3 years of FFP, would be £15m across the five year period. If he signed a contract extension at any stage then his outstanding book value would then be amortised over the full contract extension length reducing the annual amortisation charge thereafter.
If we sold him as a successful striker and in the PL, we would make a huge profit above book value.
Of course there are agent fees, but there are these fees for all transfers and loans - whoever we recruit.

You say it would take all the Spence and much of the Tavernier money to get him. I agree it will take two thirds of it, but I have consistently said that I would have been more than happy after Preston last May to swap Spence and Tavernier for Gyokeres. At £15m, we would do much better than that.

I totally respect your views, and knowledge .
No way we will pay a player £40k pw , Gyokores is decent but not worth that IMO.
We hopefully have learned our lesson on big fees and wages,

 

[Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret]

Here in lies the problem. Buying players like Hoppe or players from the dutch league probably wont propell us into the promotion shake up.

Edited.

Buying assombalonga would.

 

[BoroMart]

Here in lies the problem. Buying players like Hoppe or players from the dutch league probably wont propell us into the promotion shake up.

Buying Goykores would.

Surely that depends on which player from the dutch league. I mean would have been stupid to gamble on signing dutch league players like Huntelaar, Suarez, Wijnaldem, Robben, Staam, Ibrahimovic or Ronaldo?

 

[Ravs]

Surely that depends on which player from the dutch league. I mean would have been stupid to gamble on signing dutch league players like Huntelaar, Suarez, Wijnaldem, Robben, Staam, Ibrahimovic or Ronaldo?

And Ruud van Nistelrooy and George Boateng amongst others

 

[Andy_W]

I've noticed you say this a few times now, Coventry were very good last year, I believe only Fulham created more chances than they did. They played us off the park twice.

They still finished 12th, without Gyokeres and Hamer they would have been a lot lower, and Gyokeres destroyed us when we played them.

The point I'm making is with Gyokeres we were still better than Coventry (overall), especially since Wilder, and if you put him in our side last year it's fair to say he would have done better with us, than them. We've also strengthened our first 11 with Giles (leagues 4th best chance creator), Leinehan, Steffen etc (albeit lacking squad depth).

I think Coventry had the third most shots, and the second xG, which of course is a very good point, but it depends who else those chances are going to?

Gyokeres creates a lot, out of nothing, for himself and others, it's one of the main things I like about him.

 

[Andy_W]

After hearing the FFP comments from Wilder the other night, I'm tending to agree. We could get Hoppe and Larsen combined for less than Gyokeres. We need 5 players, something has to give.

The problem is if we're only playing one of them, or rotating them, then either of them might not be as good as Gyokeres. Effectively they still take up a space in the team, and might give a good output, but Gyokeres would probably be even better, or be more of a guarantee. It's a big difference getting 20 goals from one slot, than 15 etc.

I don't think Hoppe looks all that great, but of course it's hard to tell, he's only young so will get better, but that might not be next year, it could be in two years, which is no good to us. I don't see the bottom half of La Liga as any better than the top half of the Championship, so it's not like he's dropping down much, and likely to storm it.

I really like the look of Larsen, but he's playing in the Dutch league, which is very hard to gauge. 14 goals for Groningen last year is good though (even the top scorer only got 21), it doesn't appear that Gronigen were all that great, judging by where they finished.

Surely that depends on which player from the dutch league. I mean would have been stupid to gamble on signing dutch league players like Huntelaar, Suarez, Wijnaldem, Robben, Staam, Ibrahimovic or Ronaldo?

I was wondering where the hell Ronaldo was on that list.....but you saved the best till last

 

[BoroMart]

The problem is if we're only playing one of them, or rotating them, then either of them might not be as good as Gyokeres.

but we also have to consider what if Gyokeres gets an injury, we then end up with a backup striker worse than the Muniz, Hoppe and Larsen. Basically back to alst years problem.

You pays your money and take your choice I guess

 

[Andy_W]

but we also have to consider what if Gyokeres gets an injury, we then end up with a backup striker worse than the Muniz, Hoppe and Larsen. Basically back to alst years problem.

You pays your money and take your choice I guess

Aye, it's always a chance, and you do need depth, but I suppose that's where Forss, Watmore and Coburn come in, and hopefully we would get in another loan or a cheapy. I'd hope our strikers would all be getting better service this year, so expect better returns than last year, for all who we retained, if they play the same games.

Fulham and Bournemouth would have missed Mitro and Solanke, Fulham would have got away with it, but I don't think Bournemouth would have.

 

[Bruce]

It's not if the probability of success is lower. Most of them will have come from academies much lower standard than our own. We've probably got about 10 academy players who could play in L1/L2, maybe one of them may make it to be good enough for a top championship side.

If you punt £2m each on 5 no L1/L2 players you might get 1 who pays off, and by paying off I mean getting 15 goals and 5 assists. Effectively you're buying 15 goals for £10m, assuming the rest go in the bin.

If you punt £15m on someone who is practically guaranteed to get 15 goals (got 17 last year with no pens, in a poor Cov team), and who could get 20 in our side, and maybe even 25, then you're getting circa 13 goals for £10m (which is worse), but you get another 7 for £5m. That extra 5 goals could be 3-10 more points.

Then factor that the better player has a higher chance of more resale value, higher chance of assists, and clearly looks to have better ability then overall it works out a better investment/ purchase.

That's the thing. You can buy cheap from L1/L2 and use academy products but the gamble there is that you can spot which ones come good and which ones don't. Brentford's success has been based on being better than average at assessing those kinds of players and successfully embedding them in a squad. That kind of thing takes years of monitoring and, aside from the guy who finds all the players in London, we show no sign of doing that. Our transfer policy has tended to be "who did really well last season, lets make an offer." There's also been a sense that even when we have tried to unearth players that the club itself isn't joined up in how it handles the players.
With Scott, we are potentially going down a more coherent route but that is going to take 3 years minimum to embed while we are a club and fanbase that expects promotion immediately. Wilder is also a manager who is in it for promotion and is not interested in spending 3 years in the Championship while we get our act together. So there is all kinds of tension.

Wilder's strength is in making players who are good enough do better. He's not very good at improving star players or developing young players. Gyokeres is one of the best strikers in the Championship and looks to be on an upward trajectory. He would probably score 15-20 goals for us in a full season but someone like Forss seems more like the kind of player that Wilder would improve. Coventry don't want to sell and Gyokeres doesn't want to move to us. Larsen seems like a better fit to me; he would see us as a step up and he wouldn't cost the same amount in fee and wages, leaving us enough in the kitty to possibly chase two other £5m deals. Obviously he may struggle to adapt to the Championship so that is the gamble you take. If our past recruitment was better then you would feel that you could rely on the rest of the strikers while Larsen adapts. Given that the rest of our strikers are Forss, Akpom and Watmore's left knee that is a risk.

Frankly I would hate to have to make this decision.

 

[Andy_W]

That's the thing. You can buy cheap from L1/L2 and use academy products but the gamble there is that you can spot which ones come good and which ones don't. Brentford's success has been based on being better than average at assessing those kinds of players and successfully embedding them in a squad. That kind of thing takes years of monitoring and, aside from the guy who finds all the players in London, we show no sign of doing that. Our transfer policy has tended to be "who did really well last season, lets make an offer." There's also been a sense that even when we have tried to unearth players that the club itself isn't joined up in how it handles the players.
With Scott, we are potentially going down a more coherent route but that is going to take 3 years minimum to embed while we are a club and fanbase that expects promotion immediately. Wilder is also a manager who is in it for promotion and is not interested in spending 3 years in the Championship while we get our act together. So there is all kinds of tension.

Wilder's strength is in making players who are good enough do better. He's not very good at improving star players or developing young players. Gyokeres is one of the best strikers in the Championship and looks to be on an upward trajectory. He would probably score 15-20 goals for us in a full season but someone like Forss seems more like the kind of player that Wilder would improve. Coventry don't want to sell and Gyokeres doesn't want to move to us. Larsen seems like a better fit to me; he would see us as a step up and he wouldn't cost the same amount in fee and wages, leaving us enough in the kitty to possibly chase two other £5m deals. Obviously he may struggle to adapt to the Championship so that is the gamble you take. If our past recruitment was better then you would feel that you could rely on the rest of the strikers while Larsen adapts. Given that the rest of our strikers are Forss, Akpom and Watmore's left knee that is a risk.

Frankly I would hate to have to make this decision.

Good post.

Yep, hard to match Brentford, especially with us being in the North East. It would be hard to find young lads and get them to come up here, if they had other options near where they live etc. Peterborough have a decent record of finding them too. It takes years to build up that mind. We did pick out a couple in Jones and Spence though, but the rate is seemingly less than one a year (who make it to this level).

It's all about balance I suppose, but a team like us is absolutely crying out for a star striker, as far as the first 11 goes, and the fist 11 is very strong other than that. Forss may step up, but it's a much bigger gamble than Gyokeres. We do need some backups though, especially in centre mid with Tav gone, that's a big hole to fill. McGree may be able to fill Tav's spot, but we need to then fill McGree's etc.

If we got Larson along with a 5m gamble I think I would be equally as happy as getting Gyokeres, as I've got some faith in Forss, and expect Watmore and Coburn to do better with this years supply. I can't see any of those getting more than 15 goals mind, but if we stay solid it might be enough.

We got up in 15/16 with strikers like Nugent scoring 8, Rhodes 6 and Kike 4, which is some doing, but we only shipped 31 goals that year and had Stuani on 7 goals from playing wide, and Ramirez got 7 too. Suppose we would need Crooks, McGree, Giles and Jones all getting 25-30 goals between them, and keeping fairly tight at the back.

 

[Ian Bairds Ears]

The goal he scored v Sunderland the other day is just yet another reason why any team would be lucky to have him up front...he's powerful plucky skillful and christ he can finish....even though he had a stinker first 60 minutes...start of the season jitters
i reckon...he strode forward and smashed it home...how I long for a striker at our Club who could just do that
Get him in....its not my money...its gibbos...gibbo get him.in
Let's be excited again...get gyokeres

 

[indeedido]

It is absolutely incredible that people still think buying Gyokeres even at £15m would mean we couldn't sign what else we need.
We have signed a prospect in Forss.
We have 3 loan places still available that could provide at least one of those 2-3 additional forwards we need.
If we signed Gyokeres, we would need to permanently sign 1-2 more players, dependent on whether we need 2 or 3 more strikers.
There is definitely the budget from Spence/Tavernier to do that and leave no FFP pressure whatsover.
Surely the great Scott can identify midfielders as easily as people seem to think he is identifying strikers (who have scored no goals by and large)

Not buying him when you can is a bigger gamble.

Can we stop this bull **** that he doesn't want to come here too. If he is offered the wage he would walk here.

 

[VestasBoro]

It is absolutely incredible that people still think buying Gyokeres even at £15m would mean we couldn't sign what else we need.
We have signed a prospect in Forss.
We have 3 loan places still available that could provide at least one of those 2-3 additional forwards we need.
If we signed Gyokeres, we would need to permanently sign 1-2 more players, dependent on whether we need 2 or 3 more strikers.
There is definitely the budget from Spence/Tavernier to do that and leave no FFP pressure whatsover.
Surely the great Scott can identify midfielders as easily as people seem to think he is identifying strikers (who have scored no goals by and large)

Not buying him when you can is a bigger gamble.

Can we stop this bull **** that he doesn't want to come here too. If he is offered the wage he would walk here.

Loans cost too. James McAtee just gone to Sheff Utd, he is absolutely class and someone we absolutely should have been looking at. He will have cost them a few quid no doubt about it.

Nobody knows whats in the budget, Gibbo has been getting us out the crap for years now so just because we've sold some assets, i don't Gibbo is going to let CW spend 100% of what we've brought in.

If i was offered the wages i'd walk to Aldi, doesn't say much. I'm sure the boy is hoping a Fulham or a Brighton come in for him, rather than us. He may feel he's better off having another year at Coventry and then a team from the prem will definitely look at him, could even have an agreement with the chairman to stay for another year and then they'll sell him?

 

[indeedido]

Loans cost too. James McAtee just gone to Sheff Utd, he is absolutely class and someone we absolutely should have been looking at. He will have cost them a few quid no doubt about it.

Nobody knows whats in the budget, Gibbo has been getting us out the crap for years now so just because we've sold some assets, i don't Gibbo is going to let CW spend 100% of what we've brought in.

If i was offered the wages i'd walk to Aldi, doesn't say much. I'm sure the boy is hoping a Fulham or a Brighton come in for him, rather than us. He may feel he's better off having another year at Coventry and then a team from the prme will definitely look at him, could even have an agreement with the chairman to stay for another year and then they'll sell him?

FFS.

 

[Ash88]

I wish I could be bothered to find similar threads about Jordan Rhodes scoring 20 goals the season before we signed him.... or Rudy Gestede scoring 20 goals two seasons before we signed him too.

I think Gyokores is a great player, one of the best strikers in the league for Coventry....

But history suggests being one of the best for Coventry doesn't automatically mean he'll be one of the best for Middlesbrough, and £15m+high wages is too big of a gamble.