Brexit - deal or no deal?

Ziggy said:
That would be fine, if it wasn't for the elephant in the room.

"Peers voted overwhelmingly to remove a section of the bill that would allow ministers to break international law - by 433 votes to 165.
The government said it would reinstate the clauses when the bill returns to the House of Commons next month"

If the government decides to reinstate these clauses it would be impossible for the the EU to come back to the table for any further negotiations regarding a trade deal of any kind. It breaks the Withdrawal Agreement, and international law
It's the same red line stipulated by Biden.
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The house of Lords could block the internal market bill for another 18 months. I am not sure what the eu's response to this would be, but the current continuation of negotiations suggests that they would continue with negotiations until such times as the bill was withdrawn, defeated or passed into law.
 
Ex Footy Legs said:
We are a nation of utter chumps. There’s a minority who see right through this shower but a majority are sheep being led to the slaughter that’s why I’m no patriot. Never will be.
Nation of predominant idiots we live among (my own dad is one of them; still love despite his major shortcomings but an idiot all the same)
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Can I come round for Christmas dinner it sounds great entertainment in the ex Footy household
 
We voted to leave the EU, we decided when to start the 2 year withdrawal process, we decided our red lines for a deal, and we decided to only allow 12 months of transition in which to agree a deal.

And yet a lot still blame the EU for not making a deal.
 
Its being reported that a lot of brand new EU demands came in on Thursday night, If that is true then its a wrecking tactic. It may not be true of course.
I am sure the blame game will in full swing if a deal is not reached.

The fish problem is a red herring (sorry) its decimal places of a point of GDP but its very politically emotive.
 
It's gonna be no deal, an utter clusterf*$k for 3 months then a really bad hastily agreed deal to remove the biggest areas of pain. Then we will have to deal with the Scottish independence, restoration of Irish troubles, economic double dip, supply chain issues particularly around food. and social revolt. It's gonna be a fun couple of years. :cry:
 
I hope they can sort a deal out but don't think they will. I know a lot of information coming out could be part of both sides negotiation tactics but they do seem miles apart.
 
The leave negotiations have been based purely on rhetoric and buzz words with no detail or plan.

Letting it get to the 11th hour isn't the art of brinkmanship, its incompetence. The government don't know what they want because they are trying to avoid a negative outcome to the supporters they promise the Earth too.

The trouble is, the government have had to used polarised rhetoric to win support, they have now isolated themselves from actually getting a deal, as this will be seen as selling out by the hard right of the party or not good enough by the rest.

Either way, it will be us left picking up the mess.
 
Laughing said:
The house of Lords could block the internal market bill for another 18 months. I am not sure what the eu's response to this would be, but the current continuation of negotiations suggests that they would continue with negotiations until such times as the bill was withdrawn, defeated or passed into law.
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An interesting conundrum. The Gov may not bother reinserting the clauses. That would obviously ease the way to a deal.
In the case of no deal, well at some point we have to sit down with them. But on a number of occasions it's been made clear one of the first things on the agenda, even before talking about trade would be those clauses.
It's possible for them, like you suggest, to continue to negotiate trade...it's ratification that could be the problem if it's still standing in law.
So much for.." The easiest negotiations in history"
 
I don't think Johson can afford politically for there not to be a deal. He needs to say he showed Jhnny foreigner what's waht and they hae to come crawling to the mighty UK, but it will be absolute bare bones and not much better than WTO and definitley much worse than what we had in EU. But it will be made out to be the Battles or Trafalgar, Waterloo and El Alamein rolled into one.
 
ThePrisoner said:
I don't think Johson can afford politically for there not to be a deal. He needs to say he showed Jhnny foreigner what's waht and they hae to come crawling to the mighty UK, but it will be absolute bare bones and not much better than WTO and definitley much worse than what we had in EU. But it will be made out to be the Battles or Trafalgar, Waterloo and El Alamein rolled into one.
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Johnsons problems are a bit more nuanced than that I am afraid. He has a party that is split ideologically. If he gets a deal, the ERG won't be happy. If he doesn't get a deal the rest of the party won't be happy. Neither side is powerful enough on their own to keep him in number 10.

The truth is probably, that at some point in the future there will be a tariff free deal with the EU because it makes economic sense to both parties. The problem we have is the hardship it will cause to a large number of families and business before the deal is struck.

Since when did trading with a politically stable neighbour have anything to do with soverignty? Does anyone get this? I understand people wanting out of the political EU partnership, but that should never have precluded not trading with the EU on a tariff free agreement. I guess the EU said early on there would be no free movement of goods without free movement of people, and some just didn't want that freedom of movement.

The only answer I have managed to come up with is some uber wealthy folks see an opportunity to increase their wealth outside of the EU that didn't exist inside the EU.

If the answer to this is the upcoming tax avoidance legislation that the EU may or may not implement, I don't really buy that. If that becomes the case, wouldn't those companies most effected by this, domicile in the UK improving our GDP in the process, albeit as a bunch of theiving reprobates.

In any eveny Johnson has amajor headache coming up whatever happens.
 
Laughing said:
The problem we have is the hardship it will cause to a large number of families and business before the deal is struck
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and of course if that deal happens beyond Jan 1st it can only put more negotiating power in the EUs hands.
 
BoroMart said:
and of course if that deal happens beyond Jan 1st it can only put more negotiating power in the EUs hands.
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Boromart, I am not sure that is even the case. Each side wants something out of the deal and there is clearly a compromise to be made. Hopefully it is reached before too much damage is done to the poorer folk in the UK.
 
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