Brexit - deal or no deal?

Lefty said:
It was Corbyn far more than Brexit.

According to the polling analysts the part Brexit played was twofold.

Committed Remainers were upset at the mixed messaging coming out from Labour throughout. This was largely every time a pro-remain/2nd referendum message was put out, which was in line with the position the majority of Labour MP's, Labour members and Labour voters wanted, someone from the leaders office leaked a contradictory stance. The media of course lapped this up. This confused much of the electorate, but for people who were highly Remain, it set them against the Labour Party, especially since, in May's snap election, they lent Corbyn their vote to block May's hard Brexit, only to be told that they were part of a huge majority in favour of one form of Brexit or another. Most passionate Remainers were prepared to hold their nose and vote Labour if that was still the only tactical chance of stopping a Tory, but some weren't.

In terms of Brexit voters, Brexit voters were much more passionate about Brexit. This meant that Labour leave voters were prepared to switch, especially since most were much more centrist and put off by Corbyn, whereas Tory Remain voters were far more frightened of a Corbyn led government that may or may not be in charge of a post brexit UK, than a Conservative led government in charge but delivering Brexit.

I'm pretty sure Starmer will win back former Labour voters, except some on the far left, and win over a number of floating voters and remain/decent/sensible Tories over the next few years as he builds bridges and concensus and Brexit and the nature of these very worst Conservatives comes out.
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On the button. We now have nearly 4 years to win them back. I thought it would be easy but being first to the vaccine has given the lier a bounce.
 
Lefty said:
It was Corbyn far more than Brexit.

According to the polling analysts the part Brexit played was twofold.

Committed Remainers were upset at the mixed messaging coming out from Labour throughout. This was largely every time a pro-remain/2nd referendum message was put out, which was in line with the position the majority of Labour MP's, Labour members and Labour voters wanted, someone from the leaders office leaked a contradictory stance. The media of course lapped this up. This confused much of the electorate, but for people who were highly Remain, it set them against the Labour Party, especially since, in May's snap election, they lent Corbyn their vote to block May's hard Brexit, only to be told that they were part of a huge majority in favour of one form of Brexit or another. Most passionate Remainers were prepared to hold their nose and vote Labour if that was still the only tactical chance of stopping a Tory, but some weren't.

In terms of Brexit voters, Brexit voters were much more passionate about Brexit. This meant that Labour leave voters were prepared to switch, especially since most were much more centrist and put off by Corbyn, whereas Tory Remain voters were far more frightened of a Corbyn led government that may or may not be in charge of a post brexit UK, than a Conservative led government in charge but delivering Brexit.

I'm pretty sure Starmer will win back former Labour voters, except some on the far left, and win over a number of floating voters and remain/decent/sensible Tories over the next few years as he builds bridges and concensus and Brexit and the nature of these very worst Conservatives comes out.
Click to expand...
i'm pretty sure Starmer will win back former Labour voters, except some on the far left, and win over a number of floating voters and remain/decent/sensible Tories over the next few years as he builds bridges and concensus and Brexit and the nature of these very worst Conservatives comes out.


DONT AGREE.
The Tories have now fully sold their souls to the devil and are fully on board with mis information (fake news or lies to be blunt) and will lie and twist anything negative about Brexit and entangle it with te pandemic and look to confuse the electorate (easy to do in this country)

Like the USA Republicans ; they are only interested in power ; not truth and some semblance of respect. That's the politics of the decade ahead...often said we follow the USA and we are. The Tories will cite that Labour will call another referendum (I hope they do) if they get to Power and lie, cheat and lie again to just maintain some sort of power over the poorest in this country and continue to slowly decimate public services (because their idealogy is the American model of little or no government services)
Eventually, they will tell the British people we can't afford the NHS and need to start paying. Its coming. Probably after the next GE.

Get used to Tory scum because Starmer can't turn this around IMHO. Not when he has the likes of Len Macluskey lurking like a bad smell (horrible man)
 
Ex Footy Legs said:
i'm pretty sure Starmer will win back former Labour voters, except some on the far left, and win over a number of floating voters and remain/decent/sensible Tories over the next few years as he builds bridges and concensus and Brexit and the nature of these very worst Conservatives comes out.


DONT AGREE.
The Tories have now fully sold their souls to the devil and are fully on board with mis information (fake news or lies to be blunt) and will lie and twist anything negative about Brexit and entangle it with te pandemic and look to confuse the electorate (easy to do in this country)

Like the USA Republicans ; they are only interested in power ; not truth and some semblance of respect. That's the politics of the decade ahead...often said we follow the USA and we are. The Tories will cite that Labour will call another referendum (I hope they do) if they get to Power and lie, cheat and lie again to just maintain some sort of power over the poorest in this country and continue to slowly decimate public services (because their idealogy is the American model of little or no government services)
Eventually, they will tell the British people we can't afford the NHS and need to start paying. Its coming. Probably after the next GE.

Get used to Tory scum because Starmer can't turn this around IMHO. Not when he has the likes of Len Macluskey lurking like a bad smell (horrible man)
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Cannot disagree .
 
Ok, you disagree, but let me ask you both a question.

Do you think Starmer looks competent?

By looks I simply mean his physical appearance. Nothing more.
 
Lefty said:
Ok, you disagree, but let me ask you both a question.

Do you think Starmer looks competent?

By looks I simply mean his physical appearance. Nothing more.
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Lefty ; seriously, what a daft question. Of course he does. He is seriously competent in every way but the British electorate dont deserve him.
 
But you said he couldn't win the next election.

If he looks competent, that makes him a serious contender for a majority of voters, a large majority.
 
Watch the right wing media go for him....as a former remainer. I might be wrong but everything is stacked against him (Labour)

In-fighting from the hard left (of which you are one ?) hampering Starmer. The constant stream of mis - information from the hard right Toires masquerading as moderates. Likes of Gove, Raab, Patel, Truss, Hancock, The british electorate cant help themselves...sorry to say it...
 
I'm not hard left. I wasn't anti Corbyn, I was prepared to give him a chance. He is a decent man, but a hopeless leader who allowed himself to be influenced and surrounded by some useless and/or nasty individuals.

Starmer has my support and so far he is doing a pretty good job, but time will tell.

The thing is, I think Starmer is someone most people will think looks competent, whatever that means, which means something like 55-70% of people will judge him as Prime Minister material. I don't think anyone thought magic grandpa did.

You might like to read up on the work of psychologist Alexander Todorov.

Starmer's task in the next 4 years is, like Blair before him, not to dissuade people from that initial snap judgement that he is competent. Most people, on the Left and the Right, bought into Labour policies in the last few elections more than the Conservatives other policies, excluding Brexit.

The obstacle is competence. The Conservatives are not competent and they are sleazy. They have demonstrated that and will continue to do so because that is what they are.

For me, this is Blair v Major all over again, but with a lazy oaf with his shtick, out of his depth this time instead of a decent man, out of his depth.

Major had Kinnock in 1992 and Johnson had Corbyn. Neither of these alternatives were trusted by enough of the electorate to win them over. That took a competent looking Blair, saying the right things so as not to put people off or invite criticism, plus 4 more years of incompetence, nastiness and sleaze to seep out.

I take your point about the media, but the Right are already having a go at each other and with Murdoch, Blair didn't have to get as far into his back pocket as he did. Murdoch likes to back winner. He sized Blair up and to ensure he was the real deal and reasoned he was going to win anyway, that's why he backed him. It will be the same with Starmer, I think. If Starmer is smart, he talks with the influential people in the media and makes an effort to come across as trustworthy for them.
 
Lefty said:
Ok, you disagree, but let me ask you both a question.

Do you think Starmer looks competent?

By looks I simply mean his physical appearance. Nothing more.
Click to expand...
I have a feeling it's his best benefit . I hope the he starts going for Boris but it must be hard via a video link
 
The labour party and their members will next have a chance at a GE when they wake up and accept the idea that its the electorate that decide the result.
Still seems a long way off though
 
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