Bercow defects to Labour - Did not see that coming

[Laughing]

In any event when an ex speaker of the house defects from the conservatives with the scathing attack in the way bercow did it has to be very damaging to Johnson. Which to most fair minded people would usually be percieved as a good thing,even by a lot of back bench tories.

 

[asredastheycome]

As we say on many posts on here our views change as we get older and see things differently than when we were younger. Many on here have voted for different parties at different elections so why shouldn't he change his blue rosette for a red one. At least he has had the bottle to do it unlike some of the other Tories who are no longer in Parliment as they are against what Boris and his cronies stand for.

 

[HarryVegas]

It was me who used the word 'coup' and I'm not alone...

Remainer Lord Heseltine compares Boris Johnson's 'coup' to 'horrors' of 1930s Germany

ARCH-REMAINER Lord Heseltine appeared to compare Boris Johnson's approach to the Brexit process to the "horrors" of the 1930s German occupations across Europe, as he claimed proroguing Parliament was crossing dangerous territories.

www.google.com

 

[Ex pfc wintergreen]

Bercow assisted the prorogation, so it was either legal or he's an accomplice. The coup thing is embarrassing for you, still if it comforts you to think labour lost all those seats illegally crack on mate.

 

[HarryVegas]

They didn't lose the seats illegally. Johnson's route to power was widely labelled a hard-right coup at the time. I remain unembarrassed and you're now ignored.

 

[Adi_Dem]

Bercow assisted the prorogation, so it was either legal or he's an accomplice. The coup thing is embarrassing for you, still if it comforts you to think labour lost all those seats illegally crack on mate.

I am sorry to have to keep doing this but this is more ridiculous nonsense.

Bercow didn’t assist anything. He did everything in his limited power to stop the illegal prorogation. Yet you label him an accomplice. It’s just pathetic.

'This is not a normal prorogation'

Commons Speaker John Bercow makes his views clear as Parliament is prorogued until the middle of October.

www.bbc.co.uk

And nobody should be embarrassed here except you. It is described as a right wing coup because it shared many of the characteristics of a coup. This government came to power because of criminal behaviour, lies and manipulation of data. Whilst in power they are cutting the legs off all the bodies and all the means of holding them to account. They seek to change constituency lines to ensure retention of power. They continue to use their power for corrupt ends. If you can’t see the similarities between what I happening in front of your eyes and a coup then you’re beyond any help. You’d have to be stupid or deliberately blind. I’m not sure yet which of those you are.

 

[Ex pfc wintergreen]

Democratic referendum, democratic election, had the results went the other way the hand wringing would stop. As I say, semantics aren't my thing , nor the general populace it would seem..If it makes you feel better complain away,.

 

[Ziggy]

Some small pieces in the Tory press this morning. Suspect the Tory whips are going through Bercow’s file today. Should prove interesting

 

[Adi_Dem]

Democratic referendum, democratic election, had the results went the other way the hand wringing would stop. As I say, semantics aren't my thing , nor the general populace it would seem..If it makes you feel better complain away,.

The referendum wasn’t democratic. It was an advisory referendum in which the version of Brexit we have ended up with was explicitly and specifically ruled out and which was won with proven criminality, fraud and data protection breaches. If you think that is democratic then good for you. Some of us think a bit more critically.

 

[indeedido]

The referendum wasn’t democratic. It was an advisory referendum in which the version of Brexit we have ended up with was explicitly and specifically ruled out and which was won with proven criminality, fraud and data protection breaches. If you think that is democratic then good for you. Some of us think a bit more critically.

I couldn't care less what Berkow or his wife have done. I am more than happy for it to undermine Johnson.
But to say the referendum and the election were not democratic is laughable.
Whether they should have been the exact voting processes and whether they should be constructed the way they were may be debatable, but they were democratic.
The processes gave massive power to the victors. It seems people don't like the way that power has been used. Thankfully (very) those in power will be judged by their actions at the next election which is a maximum of three and half years away.

Personally I would hope Johnson and most of his cabinet are decisively ousted, as I detest the way they operate in power, but the truth is they are there democratically and to say otherwise could be either stupid, or deliberately blind; but not absolutely of course, as absolutes are only for idiots.

 

[Ex pfc wintergreen]

The referendum wasn’t democratic. It was an advisory referendum in which the version of Brexit we have ended up with was explicitly and specifically ruled out and which was won with proven criminality, fraud and data protection breaches. If you think that is democratic then good for you. Some of us think a bit more critically.

Criticise away,Don't change anything . Mr bercow was complicit in prorogation, why was that.

 

[Adi_Dem]

But to say the referendum and the election were not democratic is laughable.

It’s not laughable. It’s an absolute and undeniable fact. Inconvenient for some perhaps but nevertheless true. Do you deny that there were electoral breaches on a scale never before seen? That there were data protection violations on a scale never before seen? If you do then I’m afraid that’s a denial of reality and it simply isn’t worth discussing further. That’s before you even get to the fact that the campaign was won on the basis that the Brexit we ended up with was explicitly ruled out.

Criticise away,Don't change anything . Mr bercow was complicit in prorogation, why was that.

Incorrect interpretation of the word ‘critically’ but nevertheless factually wrong yet again. Please explain the way in which Bercow was complicit.

 

[American_Mary]

The Conservative party, especially locally, has had a massive influx of ex UKIP members and supporters, the local PCC is ex-UKIP, staff members in the offices of Jacob Young and Simon Clarke are ex UKIP, what Johnson has done successfully is find a home for working class people who have regressive views and rely upon protectionist policies, the difference is that years ago the Union’s were those who were providing protection, the sons of dyed in the wool union men have never had access to that protection and are being told by parties that its immigration rather than unscrupulous business practices they need protecting from, the reliance hasn’t changed but who the enemy is has.

The red wall has been eroded over time not broken overnight, but 2019 will be remembered as the first time the storm broke the defences, Labour has changed and progressed, but that has left a disenfranchised generation, Thatcher’s legacy to an extent, of working class people in largely mono-cultural areas with no political identity.

 

[Anton_Berg]

If he'd crossed the floor when he actually did fall out with the Tories (some years ago), he wouldn't have been Speaker. Get the honours first, then defect?

 

[HarryVegas]

If he'd crossed the floor when he actually did fall out with the Tories (some years ago), he wouldn't have been Speaker. Get the honours first, then defect?

What honours? They denied him the normal one a good while back.

 

[Ex pfc wintergreen]

It’s not laughable. It’s an absolute and undeniable fact. Inconvenient for some perhaps but nevertheless true. Do you deny that there were electoral breaches on a scale never before seen? That there were data protection violations on a scale never before seen? If you do then I’m afraid that’s a denial of reality and it simply isn’t worth discussing further. That’s before you even get to the fact that the campaign was won on the basis that the Brexit we ended up with was explicitly ruled out.



Incorrect interpretation of the word ‘critically’ but nevertheless factually wrong yet again. Please explain the way in which Bercow was complicit.

I'm bored now so I'll let you think you've won the debate, two things though, Brexit won and Boris got elected, nothing on here is going to change that,

 

[Adi_Dem]

I'm bored now so I'll let you think you've won the debate

Yeah, I’m sure you’ll let me ‘think’ I’ve won the debate. I understand completely why you’d want to bow out.

 

[jam69]

Bercow assisted the prorogation, so it was either legal or he's an accomplice. The coup thing is embarrassing for you, still if it comforts you to think labour lost all those seats illegally crack on mate.

I think what people mean is a coup within the tory party, over the last 18 months around 80 hard line tory mps have been dragging the party further to the right, sadly many more moderate tories have either been dispensed with or are putting their careers above the good of the country and their own party.
It's going to implode over the next year or two.
Problem is the lurch to the right is a vote winner, certainly a seat winner

 

[indeedido]

I think what people mean is a coup within the tory party, over the last 18 months around 80 hard line tory mps have been dragging the party further to the right, sadly many more moderate tories have either been dispensed with or are putting their careers above the good of the country and their own party.
It's going to implode over the next year or two.
Problem is the lurch to the right is a vote winner, certainly a seat winner

I hope it does Jam and that Johnson is destroyed. Will he let that inevitability happen or walk before it does?

 

[Adi_Dem]

I hope it does Jam and that Johnson is destroyed. Will he let that inevitability happen or walk before it does?

I wish I had any faith that this is going to do anything but get worse.