At a time of crisis this Government is FAILING

You make some very valid points Mike, I do take issue with not being critical of the government until the crisis is over. If you really believed that, you wouldn't have said the government has been quite good on some things.. If you can form that opinion before this is over then others are free to form the opinion that the government have not done enough before this is over, surely?
 
There is no way of knowing if lockdown will even work so stating now that the government has failed is moronic at best. What do you think will happen after lockdown? Everyone will go back out and the virus will start to spread again. Herd immunity has been laughed off as a ridiculous concept but it is the only way that this will be solved in the long run unless we have a vaccine. Lockdown does nothing but slow down the spread until a solution presents. That solution can only be vaccine or immunity and vaccines are reported to be a year away. Herd immunity will occur much sooner albeit there will be more deaths than in a perfect lockdown scenario until a vaccine is available. Ideally we will test and find that more people have had it with no symptoms and the rate of spread will slow down so the NHS can cope more easily but it's very unlikely we're anywhere near that stage yet.

Blaming people for mass murder is probably the stupidest thing I've ever read on here and there has been some serious competition over the years. There have been many government failings, the primary one is the state of the NHS that this virus has exposed. Hopefully we see some long term reaction to the funding of the NHS when this has finished.

There are reasons that different countries have had different outcomes. ITaly keeps being talked about because it is the worst case. They have a very old population and they have a very high number of smokers. 50% of their patients that have required intensive care have been under 60. This could very well not happen over here because we don't have the same rate of smokers as Italy do. Spain have a similar situation. China has the pollution issue. We might find that we have fewer cases than them in the long run. It might be places like London with particularly poor air quality suffer the most.

There are just too many factors to blanket say that there is a right approach. There is definitely a wrong approach, which would have been doing nothing at all and at least we haven't done nothing. Even if some people haven't been compliant. I actually think the government have been quite good on a few things, even if I don't agree with all of their decisions. They have been open, the daily briefings have kept people informed, they have changed quickly (abandoning the herd immunity idea after new data from Italy was available). The time for criticism and reflection though isn't now, it will come but I don't believe they are prioritising their friends or being reckless with lives. They are doing what they think is best in an unprecedented situation. Shutting down the economy completely could have very serious long term consequences which could lead to more loss of life in the long run. We just don't know.

We'll put. Best post on this thread.
 
Lets just be clear about clarify the point I am making to stop the ridiculous snowball effect it is having on some - I am saying the inaction, the indecisiveness of Johnson and the seeming desire to put business first will unfortunately result in far more deaths than might have been the case had stronger action been taken sooner.

Therefore the Government will be guilty of death through negligence and confused priorities, is that not so? Some of you are going on as if I'm accusing Boris Johnson of lining old ladies up against a wall and taking them out with a rifle! I'd have thought that would have been plainly obvious! Those that are trying to suggest otherwise are deflecting from the fact that the handling of this whole situation has been shocking.
 
There is no way of knowing if lockdown will even work so stating now that the government has failed is moronic at best. What do you think will happen after lockdown? Everyone will go back out and the virus will start to spread again. Herd immunity has been laughed off as a ridiculous concept but it is the only way that this will be solved in the long run unless we have a vaccine. Lockdown does nothing but slow down the spread until a solution presents. That solution can only be vaccine or immunity and vaccines are reported to be a year away. Herd immunity will occur much sooner albeit there will be more deaths than in a perfect lockdown scenario until a vaccine is available. Ideally we will test and find that more people have had it with no symptoms and the rate of spread will slow down so the NHS can cope more easily but it's very unlikely we're anywhere near that stage yet.

Blaming people for mass murder is probably the stupidest thing I've ever read on here and there has been some serious competition over the years. There have been many government failings, the primary one is the state of the NHS that this virus has exposed. Hopefully we see some long term reaction to the funding of the NHS when this has finished.

There are reasons that different countries have had different outcomes. ITaly keeps being talked about because it is the worst case. They have a very old population and they have a very high number of smokers. 50% of their patients that have required intensive care have been under 60. This could very well not happen over here because we don't have the same rate of smokers as Italy do. Spain have a similar situation. China has the pollution issue. We might find that we have fewer cases than them in the long run. It might be places like London with particularly poor air quality suffer the most.

There are just too many factors to blanket say that there is a right approach. There is definitely a wrong approach, which would have been doing nothing at all and at least we haven't done nothing. Even if some people haven't been compliant. I actually think the government have been quite good on a few things, even if I don't agree with all of their decisions. They have been open, the daily briefings have kept people informed, they have changed quickly (abandoning the herd immunity idea after new data from Italy was available). The time for criticism and reflection though isn't now, it will come but I don't believe they are prioritising their friends or being reckless with lives. They are doing what they think is best in an unprecedented situation. Shutting down the economy completely could have very serious long term consequences which could lead to more loss of life in the long run. We just don't know.
Well said!
 
You make some very valid points Mike, I do take issue with not being critical of the government until the crisis is over. If you really believed that, you wouldn't have said the government has been quite good on some things.. If you can form that opinion before this is over then others are free to form the opinion that the government have not done enough before this is over, surely?
The things I think they have been good at aren't the decisions they have made though. Like I said, I don't agree with some of their decisions (announcing protection for PAYE but not self employed at the same time for instance). It's just that they have been a constant presence and communicated. We're not used to that from the government, whoever has been in power. That sort of thing should help reduce panic. It's the soft skills part of their response.

There are always going to be people that just can't accept that a Tory could do something right but at the moment we should be putting party politics completely to the side and concentrating on just getting through the situation. I am in 100% support of some of the criticism such as PPE for the frontline staff and test kits. It's a ridiculous waste of resources to have key staff in isolation for 14 days unnecessarily when they have just had a cold etc and they are perfectly healthy.
 
WeeGord, government policy may or may not result in more deaths. There is currently no way of knowing. If we had gone into immediate lockdown for six months and then lifted lockdown and cracked on we may all immediately get wiped out in a second wave....? We simply don’t know enough about the details of the virus to know what the implications of any action or inaction are.

whatever approach any government anywhere in the world is taking us open to criticism. This is already dreadful, hopefully a way out of it will be found for the whole world with loss of life minimised. The only way lives will definitely be saved is when there is a vaccine available. Until then their is sadly going to be loss of life at a horrendous level whatever approach is taken.

the only thing that can be said is lessons must be learned worldwide from this. That will occur afterwards and will hopefully help next time (which there will be at some point). The biggest lesson to understand is that as a race we are not invincible.
 
The things I think they have been good at aren't the decisions they have made though. Like I said, I don't agree with some of their decisions (announcing protection for PAYE but not self employed at the same time for instance). It's just that they have been a constant presence and communicated. We're not used to that from the government, whoever has been in power. That sort of thing should help reduce panic. It's the soft skills part of their response.

There are always going to be people that just can't accept that a Tory could do something right but at the moment we should be putting party politics completely to the side and concentrating on just getting through the situation. I am in 100% support of some of the criticism such as PPE for the frontline staff and test kits. It's a ridiculous waste of resources to have key staff in isolation for 14 days unnecessarily when they have just had a cold etc and they are perfectly healthy.
I agree. I personally feel that it is also appropriate to be able to criticise the lack of foresight and planning. Plus the dithering about enforcing a lock down.
 
Just got this off Sky... Well done to them.


North Yorkshire police are bringing in measures to stop people going outdoors
The force will be using checkpoints in the region to ask drivers if their journey is essential.
Assistant Chief Constable Mike Walker, said: "The new and significant restrictions announced by the Prime Minister on Monday evening spell out very clearly what each and every one of us must do to save lives. The message is clear and the warning stark. Stay at home, save lives.
"These are the lives of the people we know and love. Our partners, mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, children, grandparents.
"You may never be in such a position again where your simple actions will lead directly to saving lives."
The force also said the checkpoints would be random and unannounced.
 
Lets just be clear about clarify the point I am making to stop the ridiculous snowball effect it is having on some - I am saying the inaction, the indecisiveness of Johnson and the seeming desire to put business first will unfortunately result in far more deaths than might have been the case had stronger action been taken sooner.

Therefore the Government will be guilty of death through negligence and confused priorities, is that not so? Some of you are going on as if I'm accusing Boris Johnson of lining old ladies up against a wall and taking them out with a rifle! I'd have thought that would have been plainly obvious! Those that are trying to suggest otherwise are deflecting from the fact that the handling of this whole situation has been shocking.[/Date of 10th #Coronavirus case:
Spain: Feb 26th
Italy: Feb 21st
UK: Feb 23rd

Deaths (as of 24th March):
Spain: 2,991
Italy: 6,820
UK: 422

Based on these figures, the UK response has been vastly more effective at preserving life...
 
Id suggest New York and the USA focus on their own failings and problems.
I don't say that in a nasty way. I actually don't mind Trump. I think his presidency has been ok. He has failings though and has made his own comments on this situation which now look wrong and misguided. Maybe they should concentrate on problems on that side of the water.

Come on here and say anything derogatory about china, their leaders, the lies, their eating habits, the reason this virus started and your shot down, yet it's applauded and agreed with when other countries slag off our elected leader in this time of national crisis.

Pathetic
His presidency has been a complete and utter disaster - his primary objective has always been to undo as much of Obama's legislation as he can and to enhance his own business fortunes. Fortunately some States are trying to do the right thing, even if they are being hampered by Trump.
 
Just got this off Sky... Well done to them.


North Yorkshire police are bringing in measures to stop people going outdoors
The force will be using checkpoints in the region to ask drivers if their journey is essential.
Assistant Chief Constable Mike Walker, said: "The new and significant restrictions announced by the Prime Minister on Monday evening spell out very clearly what each and every one of us must do to save lives. The message is clear and the warning stark. Stay at home, save lives.
"These are the lives of the people we know and love. Our partners, mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers, children, grandparents.
"You may never be in such a position again where your simple actions will lead directly to saving lives."
The force also said the checkpoints would be random and unannounced.
Was going to take my daughter on some driving lessons...would this be ok? Not risking contaminating anyone, won't be getting out of the car etc
 
Was going to take my daughter on some driving lessons...would this be ok? Not risking contaminating anyone, won't be getting out of the car etc
Interesting question. I have no idea.

The only thing I would say is "What happens if your car breaks down?" and "What happens if there is an accident?"

I know these scenarios are unlikely. They could still happen. So is the journey necessary?
 
Its bollocks supporting the strategy this government has taken, that's a fact. The apologists, those with blind faith are part of the problem and complicit in state killing.

Turning a blind eye doesn't solve the problem.
Why don't you just withdraw that comment. We all get carried away at times but as someone else said its the most outrageous thing said here in years.
 

WeeGord

Well-known member
Why don't you just withdraw that comment. We all get carried away at times but as someone else said its the most outrageous thing said here in years.
That is the most outrageous thing said on the board in years, are you out of your sick little mind? Personally, I find it far more outrageous that you were trying to coax an argument the morning of my fathers funeral despite being in full knowledge of what was happening. You then bizarrely went a liked virtually every one of the posts on every thread I had posted on at that time. Very odd behaviour wouldn't you say?
 
That is the most outrageous thing said on the board in years, are you out of your sick little mind? Personally, I find it far more outrageous that you were trying to coax an argument the morning of my fathers funeral despite being in full knowledge of what was happening. You then bizarrely went a liked virtually every one of the posts on every thread I had posted on at that time. Very odd behaviour wouldn't you say?
As you insist on persisting in bringing this up - I never have by the way

Not as odd as spending the most of that morning on a football message board when attending an important funeral in the afternoon

I really hesitate before posting this but its the 3rd or 4th time you have brought it up to support your argument for stating that more than 50% of the electorate are complicit in mass murder. And as you have noticed
the majority of posters on this thread agree with me,
Just man up and stop deflecting to gain sympathy
 

WeeGord

Well-known member
As you insist on persisting in bringing this up - I never have by the way

Not as odd as spending the most of that morning on a football message board when attending an important funeral in the afternoon

I really hesitate before posting this but its the 3rd or 4th time you have brought it up to support your argument for stating that more than 50% of the electorate are complicit in mass murder. And as you have noticed
the majority of posters on this thread agree with me,
Just man up and stop deflecting to gain sympathy
You’re a pathetic scrote now trying to point score by suggesting being on the message board the morning of my fathers funeral somehow reflects badly on me.

Give yourself head a shake you trolling muppet.
 
As you insist on persisting in bringing this up - I never have by the way

Not as odd as spending the most of that morning on a football message board when attending an important funeral in the afternoon

I really hesitate before posting this but its the 3rd or 4th time you have brought it up to support your argument for stating that more than 50% of the electorate are complicit in mass murder. And as you have noticed
the majority of posters on this thread agree with me,
Just man up and stop deflecting to gain sympathy
Think you have crossed the line too their pal.

If someone finds solace and peace, or it keeps their mind of what is about to happen by coming on a message board, who are you to f@cking judge

Let’s keep from personal attacks eh
 
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