At a time of crisis this Government is FAILING

There is no evidence for any of the reasons that they have made the decisions. It is all just guesswork and supposition. It might be that they have made the decision for the right reasons. Maybe getting a couple of thousand from EU sources isn't good enough and the only way they can guarantee a big enough supply is telling Dyson they'd have 10k because Dyson might not have switched production if it was only for 1 or 2k.

If it had been a US initiative and Johnson had instead gone with an EU supplier then you wouldn't be making this argument.
 

1finny

Well-known member
JCB and Dyson - both huge brexiteers.
Coincidence and ‘let’s keep politics out of this’

The specialist manufacturer in Scotland on TV last night absolutely exasperated that he has waited weeks for a response from the government about help to ramp up production. He does it for a living.
He asked the obvious question - why invest in these new guys when those with existing facilities are under utilised.

Of course, we will probably never have enough so more will be needed but looks like we could have had some quicker had we had a different response
 
Yes, I am taking notice... no I didn’t panic but... and no, I wasn’t out. I have two type 1 diabetic children, my mum has COPD as does my father in law.

Does that answer your question?
Well no it doesn't.
Because you are moaning at the government but doing exactly what they have asked you to do.
Why aren't you doing your own thing if you disagree with the government's way of doing things so much?

Confusing.
 

Lefty

Well-known member
There is no evidence for any of the reasons that they have made the decisions. It is all just guesswork and supposition. It might be that they have made the decision for the right reasons. Maybe getting a couple of thousand from EU sources isn't good enough and the only way they can guarantee a big enough supply is telling Dyson they'd have 10k because Dyson might not have switched production if it was only for 1 or 2k.

If it had been a US initiative and Johnson had instead gone with an EU supplier then you wouldn't be making this argument.
I'm in favour of as much international co-operation to combat an international crisis as possible. Unless there is a good reason not to. 'Because we are no longer in the EU' is not a good reason, it just indicates brexit comes before coronavirus. I can think of no other explanation than a deep seated ideology.

I couldn't care less whose idea it was at this point.

'If it had been a US initiative and Johnson had instead gone with an EU supplier then you wouldn't be making this argument' . My questioning of whether some of the government's stranger decisions might be ideology based is itself ideology based?
 
My questioning of whether some of the government's stranger decisions might be ideology based is itself ideology based?
Yes., because it is purely from a pro-EU/anti-Brexit position as usual.

"Because we are no longer in the EU" is a perfectly good answer though and it doesn't have to be brexit related. Maybe if he had given a full answer and explanation he would have said "We are no longer in the EU, we have already got plans in place with x, y and z. We no longer attend EU meetings and so we have no reason to expect that we would be co-operating or that we have been invited to. Just like we haven't put in a joint order with USA, Canada, Japan or Tajikistan"
 

WeeGord

Well-known member
Well no it doesn't.
Because you are moaning at the government but doing exactly what they have asked you to do.
Why aren't you doing your own thing if you disagree with the government's way of doing things so much?

Confusing.
Not confusing at all - I made sure I stopped contact with people far sooner than the government suggested it, and I stopped going to bars, restaurants etc sooner than they suggested that too so not sure what you're confused about? In light of having children who are classed as at additional risk, and a mum and father-in-law with severe respiratory problems (as well as having asthma myself) I took sensible decisions prior to the Government asking us to do so.

Hope that clears up your confusion.
 

Lefty

Well-known member
Yes., because it is purely from a pro-EU/anti-Brexit position as usual.

"Because we are no longer in the EU" is a perfectly good answer though and it doesn't have to be brexit related. Maybe if he had given a full answer and explanation he would have said "We are no longer in the EU, we have already got plans in place with x, y and z. We no longer attend EU meetings and so we have no reason to expect that we would be co-operating or that we have been invited to. Just like we haven't put in a joint order with USA, Canada, Japan or Tajikistan"
Since he didn't give that full answer, how do you know what it was?

How in fact do you know that it wasn't the full answer?

At least you agree ideology might be playing a part. Not in the government's case, or yours, but just in mine?
 
But .. This has simmered away for months. I have not ever never name called or directly insulted Weegord or anyone else unless someone can point me to one.

But I do get on the end of "no mark , troll scrote muppet" and worse as a matter of routine from him. Maybe I finally got sick of it.
Perhaps you could use the ignore button - given that neither of you have maybe you are both enjoying venting at each other ;-)
 
Ignore s!ovak. He is clearly a wind up merchant.
Why exactly am I a wind up merchant? I have a different opinion to you, there's no need provoke and try to instigate an argument.

I believe the government have an unbelievably difficult task juggling the economy and protecting the NHS from being swamped. I think the general public should be doing more. They should certainly have done more initially after the government issued it's advice to stay at home. People in this country are ill disciplined and that's a huge factor in why it's spreading at the rate it is.

I also find it difficult to comprehend how the government can be critised regarding the financial package it has made available.

Unfortunately I think that no matter what the government does then there will always be those who disagree. We all have our political bias' and this is just another stick to beat the current occupants of No.10.
 
The Government have been generally poor.

Despite plenty of notice from China, the advanced planning for the virus has been woeful, these ventilators should have been in production weeks ago. The lockdown was arguably two weeks too late also.

Everything has been reactive and typically Tory they have thrown money at the public to keep them onside.

People are on social media trying to convince themselves Johnson is doing a great job but in reality it’s a shambles with the financial bill due somewhere down the line. Labour would have been crucified by the Tory media if they had done the same.
 
Why exactly am I a wind up merchant? I have a different opinion to you, there's no need provoke and try to instigate an argument.

I believe the government have an unbelievably difficult task juggling the economy and protecting the NHS from being swamped. I think the general public should be doing more. They should certainly have done more initially after the government issued it's advice to stay at home. People in this country are ill disciplined and that's a huge factor in why it's spreading at the rate it is.

I also find it difficult to comprehend how the government can be critised regarding the financial package it has made available.

Unfortunately I think that no matter what the government does then there will always be those who disagree. We all have our political bias' and this is just another stick to beat the current occupants of No.10.
Slovak, your last comment about there will always be those that disagree. Well the WHO disagree for a start, Spain begged the UK not to use the strategy they used. There are lots of examples of people who know more than you or I criticising the governments handling of the current crisis.

Balancing the economy, protecting the NHS... So how many deaths are acceptable to balance the economy? Why has the 6th richest nation in the world having to let people die so the NHS doesn't become overwhelmed? Who stripped it to the bone?

None of my comments have a political bias, as I said earlier I am not politicising this, I am outraged that our government find any number of deaths acceptable to keep taxes coming in.

I do agree with the financial packages, though I don't know the implementation details as yet.
 
Since he didn't give that full answer, how do you know what it was?

How in fact do you know that it wasn't the full answer?

At least you agree ideology might be playing a part. Not in the government's case, or yours, but just in mine?
I don't know. That's exactly my point. All your criticism is based on something you have no knowledge of. Your criticism is ideology based instead of evidence based because you have no evidence.
 
Boromike, my complaint would be the glibness of his answer, he could and should have elucidated. It now appears we are clubbing with the EU to buy ventilators, more time wasted and that my friend is evidence based.
 
Boromike, my complaint would be the glibness of his answer, he could and should have elucidated. It now appears we are clubbing with the EU to buy ventilators, more time wasted and that my friend is evidence based.
Well if you accept the official statement then they believed that they weren't invited to take part. My made up statement above is, ridiculously, very close to the real situation based on the recent update.
 
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