Are the government, deliberately, setting man against man?

100% - straight out of the far-right playbook. Trump did it fairly successfully and was a common trait for maintenance of order in Nazi Germany.

In effect it's about creating "the other" - a (usually under-represented or disenfranchised group) who can be blamed for all of society's ills, deflecting blame from the actual architects of all that is wrong with society, the government.

By and large it works as well - people would rather blame someone else than admit complicity in electing the current regime, this gets amplified continually by the press and no doubt picks up a few more supporters along the way.
 
Laughing said:
Am I alone in thinking that the goverrnment are deliberately setting us against each other, with their messaging. It is not unknown that the right wing press, and government are in each others pockets. I wonder what their endgame is? Is it to distract us? Or is it just the difficult set of circumstances we find ourselves in, that make us fight and argue? In any event, it woill suites Johnson, his government, and the wider party, to create a target for you and I to blame. It, absoloutley, deflects blame from governance and on to our brothers and sisters.

Are we all idiots for falling for this? Blaming those not vaccinated, or wearing masks? Blaming those who choose to follow "the science". Are we not all after the same outcome? The least number of deaths, covid and non covid, the least amount of misery, the most amount of worthwhile lives that are possible?

It has become, in my opinion, just following your "team" and is having an effect, deliberate or otherwise, of distracting us from the major issues we face today, and I do not believe for a moment that covid is the major issue.

Falling, silently into a dictatorship. Allowing future generations to line healthcare pockets to maintain life. And I am absoloutely certain that this latter issue, will cost more lives in the UK than covid ever will. Withdrawing our basic human rights. Removing the right to protest. Removing the right to live here, even if you have a right to do so today.

I am becoming quickly dischuffed with borad members who care more about "proving a point" than actually opening their eyes and see what is happening. We are, as nation, to steal a quote from a few years ago, sleep walking into a third world country.
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Labour/Tory - Brexit/Remain - Vaccinated/Unjabbed

People have forgotten it is us vs them, decisions and actions need to be made in our best interests.
 
Laughing said:
Zorro my point wasn't really about covid or about how the government have handled it but how we, you and I and other board members have handled it. It's now perfectly acceptable to name call.

Can you imagine if this board were a pub. It would be a bloodbath.
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Except it wouldn’t because stripped of the anonymity of the internet most people would be more sociable and discuss in a more reasonable way. I‘d hope.
 
Of course they are, this government's whole mantra is based in divisive politics, always laying the blame for something, at some section of society.

Whether it's Europe, immigrants or whatever, its precisely what Trump did and it deflects the ire away from the real issue ie their corruption.
 
Laughing said:
But what is happening to us? And I don't think it's down to covid, that just highlights the social problems. If covid hadn't come along there would be daily brexit threads with one side calling the other.

We, collectively bang on about democracy whilst some call any tories scum. That's not really democracy its one side against the other. Even as Labour voters, in the main we bitch at each other about how left or right starmer is.
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Firstly the West has an 'either or' culture rather than an 'and also' culture which leads to taking sides.

Eg. drug users should be penalised or rehabilitated as opposed to drug users should be penalised and also rehabilitated.

Secondly and linked to the first point I think many people are incapable of real dialogue. The ability to really digest the point the other person is making, ask questions etc. and come to a view that leads to discussion. For many people the others views are filtered through already held beliefs without consideration.

Thirdly I doubt many people can take a position outside themselves and consider their own thoughts and beliefs and how that may reveal bias.

Forthly throw in the internet and the norms of interpersonal behaviour go out the window.

I think it's a massive problem and inhibits debate in many areas - why can't we tap our own gas resources and still follow a green agenda.
 
Millbrook said:
Secondly and linked to the first point I think many people are incapable of real dialogue. The ability to really digest the point the other person is making, ask questions etc. and come to a view that leads to discussion. For many people the others views are filtered through already held beliefs without consideration.
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If I was in charge of education, debating would be compulsory on the curriculum.
 
NorthumberlandBoro said:
I can guarantee that the clowns who post on here and take repeated delight in insulting/belittling other posters would not dream of doing it face to face.
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I agree. The comparison was to highlight how devisive folks can be on here.

I do find it quite disappointing and as I have said above I have been disappointed in myself from time to time for getting dragged into it.
 
Y
Laughing said:
Am I alone in thinking that the goverrnment are deliberately setting us against each other, with their messaging. It is not unknown that the right wing press, and government are in each others pockets. I wonder what their endgame is? Is it to distract us? Or is it just the difficult set of circumstances we find ourselves in, that make us fight and argue? In any event, it woill suites Johnson, his government, and the wider party, to create a target for you and I to blame. It, absoloutley, deflects blame from governance and on to our brothers and sisters.

Are we all idiots for falling for this? Blaming those not vaccinated, or wearing masks? Blaming those who choose to follow "the science". Are we not all after the same outcome? The least number of deaths, covid and non covid, the least amount of misery, the most amount of worthwhile lives that are possible?

It has become, in my opinion, just following your "team" and is having an effect, deliberate or otherwise, of distracting us from the major issues we face today, and I do not believe for a moment that covid is the major issue.

Falling, silently into a dictatorship. Allowing future generations to line healthcare pockets to maintain life. And I am absoloutely certain that this latter issue, will cost more lives in the UK than covid ever will. Withdrawing our basic human rights. Removing the right to protest. Removing the right to live here, even if you have a right to do so today.

I am becoming quickly dischuffed with borad members who care more about "proving a point" than actually opening their eyes and see what is happening. We are, as nation, to steal a quote from a few years ago, sleep walking into a third world country.
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Yes.
 
Millbrook said:
Firstly the West has an 'either or' culture rather than an 'and also' culture which leads to taking sides.

Eg. drug users should be penalised or rehabilitated as opposed to drug users should be penalised and also rehabilitated.

Secondly and linked to the first point I think many people are incapable of real dialogue. The ability to really digest the point the other person is making, ask questions etc. and come to a view that leads to discussion. For many people the others views are filtered through already held beliefs without consideration.

Thirdly I doubt many people can take a position outside themselves and consider their own thoughts and beliefs and how that may reveal bias.

Forthly throw in the internet and the norms of interpersonal behaviour go out the window.

I think it's a massive problem and inhibits debate in many areas - why can't we tap our own gas resources and still follow a green agenda.
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Aren't you essentially describing a university education?

I actually went to prove the point about UK lagging behind other European countries when it comes to tertiary education but the inverse is true - UK is actually top of the list in Europe for % tertiary education!
 
changingman said:
Aren't you essentially describing a university education?

I actually went to prove the point about UK lagging behind other European countries when it comes to tertiary education but the inverse is true - UK is actually top of the list in Europe for % tertiary education!
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I knew that, I looked it up quite recently for another debate.
 
Laughing said:
I pretty much agree with that. I can't understand why someone wouldn't get vaccinated, generally, but support their right to choose. Campaigning for others to make that decision seems morally dubious.

As I type this, I am thinking to myself, would I agree to my 10 year old being vaccinated? I don't know, if I have to make that choice I will look at the overall numbers and see if there is a net benefit to her. If not, screw the greater good, so to speak. With that in mind, I guess I can undestand why an 18 year old may not want to be vaccinated. They are at such low risk, the net benefit is porobably so marginal as to be non-existant.

However, trying to get others to agree with that position, seems a bit odd.
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As we've discussed previously, support their right to choose, until that choice massively starts to impact other people. Also if the 'choice' is based on flawed science and conspiracy it's frustrating.

I don't think the government are setting people against each other. People are doing it for themselves. When doctors are saying that the vast majority of cases now ending up in ICU are unvaccinated, it's pretty clear why most people might find that slightly irksome.
 
changingman said:
Aren't you essentially describing a university education?

I actually went to prove the point about UK lagging behind other European countries when it comes to tertiary education but the inverse is true - UK is actually top of the list in Europe for % tertiary education!
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I don't think I am and that's without taking into account no platforming.
 
Cuthbert said:
As we've discussed previously, support their right to choose, until that choice massively starts to impact other people. Also if the 'choice' is based on flawed science and conspiracy it's frustrating.

I don't think the government are setting people against each other. People are doing it for themselves. When doctors are saying that the vast majority of cases now ending up in ICU are unvaccinated, it's pretty clear why most people might find that slightly irksome.
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I understand that it's frustrating. I don't necessarily buy the fact that most ICU cases are unvaccinated but that is by the by. Covid aside, I still believe my point stands. I appreciate that some won't agree, which is why I ask the question.
 
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