Another summer rebuild?

The loans are relatively easy deals to do though. Ayling (free), Thomas (last year of contract and not wanted at Liecester) and O'Brien (forest FFP and Huge squad issues), would be within our budget I'd have thought, where as last season, Ramsey, Archer Et al would all command transfer fees and wages far exceeding "the model"

I don't anticipate huge turnover in numbers, unless we end up selling players we don't want to leave, Mcgree, Jones, Hackney, VDB etc.
 
B_G said:
I agree with most of your post but I feel like not addressing full backs would be a problem. Engel hasn't been good enough and although I like Smith, he's another year older and had a bad injury. I think we need to address the RB position.
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Absolutely agree, But I reckon there is a huge chance we take Ayling and Thomas. Striker is the one for me.

IF, and is a huge IF, we signed Ayling Thomas and O'brien, the first choice 11 is only a striker away from being very competitive.
 
MickaelDebevePhenomenal said:
Absolutely agree, But I reckon there is a huge chance we take Ayling and Thomas. Striker is the one for me.

IF, and is a huge IF, we signed Ayling Thomas and O'brien, the first choice 11 is only a striker away from being very competitive.
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—————-Dieng—————-
Ayling—Fry—RVDB—Thomas
——-Hackney—O’Brien——-
—-Jones—Azaz—McGree—-
——————Forss—————

Diallo or Benson would have been unreal
 
Dieng / Glover

Smith / Dijksteel
Fry / Lenihan
VDB / Clarke
Engel / Bangura

Hackney (I don’t think we’ll sell unless crazy money)
Barlaser / new centre mid

McGree / new left winger
Azaz / new number 10
Jones / Forss

Lath / new striker.




Not that much of a “rebuild” really. Just some upgrades if possible and some squad depth
 
MickaelDebevePhenomenal said:
Absolutely agree, But I reckon there is a huge chance we take Ayling and Thomas. Striker is the one for me.

IF, and is a huge IF, we signed Ayling Thomas and O'brien, the first choice 11 is only a striker away from being very competitive.
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Haven't seen anything of Thomas yet but has a good pedigree and I'm hopeful he could be the answer at LB.

Not sold on Ayling yet. He's been a bit meehh for me. I was pleased when we brough him in but he hasn't been great so far. Taking into consideration he hasn't played much football this season yet so maybe will improve as the season goes on so jury still out. He would be 33 going into next season so unless he looks really solid for the remainder of the season, I wouldn't really see the value in signing him.
 
B_G said:
I agree with most of your post but I feel like not addressing full backs would be a problem. Engel hasn't been good enough and although I like Smith, he's another year older and had a bad injury. I think we need to address the RB position.
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yes and no.

I suspect that club would like to sign Thomas if his loan works out. You do get the impression that the coaching staff don't think Engel is good enough and clearly Bangura hasn't been able to stay fit.

I also suspect that the club would go with an 18 month contract for Ayling with a view to a marque right back the season after, if we get promoted. If nothing else, we're potentially losing Crooks and Howson so we need a strong, senior pro in the dressing room.

If O'Brien comes good and we sign him, and if we can hang onto Hackney then I think those two will be a top 6 standard centre midfield pair. At that point, you could go for a 19 year old Premier wonderkid on loan to bed in slowly, and, hopefully, come on strong in the second half of the season.

The key to it all is avoiding another major overhaul. Then, if we get off to a strong start you add the turbo charge signings in the winter window.

I don't know who we would sign as a CF and #10 but they need to be Championship ready because we can't afford to give the whole league another 10 game head start.
 
fmttmadmin said:
No. Definitely not. I think the major influx of players last summer are being given time to develop. We also won't want to repeat that process again as it asks too much of a number of players to settle in so quickly together,
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agreed, was it 12 players last summer? I think it's more likely to be 6 or 7 of which maybe 1 or 2 could be loans turning to perms, in Ayling and Greenwood.

We will already have a better core squad than last year and won't need to throw 5 players into the first couple of games who don't really know each other.
 
Bruce said:
yes and no.

I suspect that club would like to sign Thomas if his loan works out. You do get the impression that the coaching staff don't think Engel is good enough and clearly Bangura hasn't been able to stay fit.

I also suspect that the club would go with an 18 month contract for Ayling with a view to a marque right back the season after, if we get promoted. If nothing else, we're potentially losing Crooks and Howson so we need a strong, senior pro in the dressing room.

If O'Brien comes good and we sign him, and if we can hang onto Hackney then I think those two will be a top 6 standard centre midfield pair. At that point, you could go for a 19 year old Premier wonderkid on loan to bed in slowly, and, hopefully, come on strong in the second half of the season.

The key to it all is avoiding another major overhaul. Then, if we get off to a strong start you add the turbo charge signings in the winter window.

I don't know who we would sign as a CF and #10 but they need to be Championship ready because we can't afford to give the whole league another 10 game head start.
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That 19 year old wonderkid will defo come from our own ranks
 
MickaelDebevePhenomenal said:
Absolutely agree, But I reckon there is a huge chance we take Ayling and Thomas. Striker is the one for me.

IF, and is a huge IF, we signed Ayling Thomas and O'brien, the first choice 11 is only a striker away from being very competitive.
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I guess some of that depends on how Azaz settles too, if he's our 10, and he struggles to get up to speed, we might need another 10 but yes, it should be less first teamers than last year
 
B_G said:
Haven't seen anything of Thomas yet but has a good pedigree and I'm hopeful he could be the answer at LB.

Not sold on Ayling yet. He's been a bit meehh for me. I was pleased when we brough him in but he hasn't been great so far. Taking into consideration he hasn't played much football this season yet so maybe will improve as the season goes on so jury still out. He would be 33 going into next season so unless he looks really solid for the remainder of the season, I wouldn't really see the value in signing him.
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If we lose Howson and Paddy, Crooks has already gone, Smith could go, that's a lot of experience. I'd absolutely see the value in signing Ayling, especially with his "fiery character" even if his on pitch performances are a little bit Meh
 
BoroMart said:
I guess some of that depends on how Azaz settles too, if he's our 10, and he struggles to get up to speed, we might need another 10 but yes, it should be less first teamers than last year
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Azaz had an overall disappointing game against the mackems, but the glimpses of quality were there, you had to look hard to see em like, but those glimpses all happened when he drifted infield to the 10 position.

He doesn't look like he has the mobility of a Mcgree/Greenwood to be the player the drifts in from the LW and then gets back out there when we lose possession. I'm hopeful that once he settles, finds his rythm and has a settled team around him, he will be a great option there
 
Once upon a time the club was seen as being very ambitious. Gibson's rallying cry was "no more mediocrity". I really feel that Gibbo has lost that ambition and we have gradually slipped back into being an average championship side. The man is very rich, but not in the billionaire bracket. It seems his desire to use his wealth to transform us into an established prem side has its limits. All credit to the guy for what he has done for the club, but things are not going to change while he is in charge. On the other hand you could take the view that it is preferable to have one of our own in charge and stay as we are than sell our souls to some dodgy foreign power with tons of money. That can be a deal with the devil.
 
iamborome said:
Once upon a time the club was seen as being very ambitious. Gibson's rallying cry was "no more mediocrity". I really feel that Gibbo has lost that ambition and we have gradually slipped back into being an average championship side. The man is very rich, but not in the billionaire bracket. It seems his desire to use his wealth to transform us into an established prem side has its limits. All credit to the guy for what he has done for the club, but things are not going to change while he is in charge. On the other hand you could take the view that it is preferable to have one of our own in charge and stay as we are than sell our souls to some dodgy foreign power with tons of money. That can be a deal with the devil.
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We are now a club that needs to use nous, strategy and intelligence to succeed (like 95% of football clubs) rather than throw a cheque book at it. It has absolutely nothing to do with ambition.

Throwing money at the situation for ONE window post the AK relegation literally hamstrung us for 4 years. It is a very short-sighted approach
 
MickaelDebevePhenomenal said:
If we lose Howson and Paddy, Crooks has already gone, Smith could go, that's a lot of experience. I'd absolutely see the value in signing Ayling, especially with his "fiery character" even if his on pitch performances are a little bit Meh
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Agree we are losing experience and need to replace some of that but performances need to justify it as well. Like I say, I'm not writing off Ayling at all because I think/hope he is better than he has shown so far and if he proves that then yes get him on a 1 or 2 year deal.

But there is also the possibility that Ayling is dwindling, Leeds have had Archie Gray at right back in front of him, maybe there's a reason for that. If that proves to be the case then I don't think we should sign him just for his experience and we think he was good 2 years ago. There'll be other players out there aged 28-32 who are better equipped to improve us.
 
MickaelDebevePhenomenal said:
Azaz had an overall disappointing game against the mackems, but the glimpses of quality were there, you had to look hard to see em like, but those glimpses all happened when he drifted infield to the 10 position.

He doesn't look like he has the mobility of a Mcgree/Greenwood to be the player the drifts in from the LW and then gets back out there when we lose possession. I'm hopeful that once he settles, finds his rythm and has a settled team around him, he will be a great option there
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Azaz is getting goal scoring opportunities which is a good thing playing from the no10 position. He's had at least 4 pretty good opportunities in his 3 games so far and I'm sure he'll be disappointed not to have taken a couple of them, His goalscoring record is good. I'm sticking with Azaz as a player who could be really good for us even if he hasn't set the world alight yet. I think he could be a really good player for us next season.
 
B_G said:
Agree we are losing experience and need to replace some of that but performances need to justify it as well. Like I say, I'm not writing off Ayling at all because I think/hope he is better than he has shown so far and if he proves that then yes get him on a 1 or 2 year deal.

But there is also the possibility that Ayling is dwindling, Leeds have had Archie Gray at right back in front of him, maybe there's a reason for that. If that proves to be the case then I don't think we should sign him just for his experience and we think he was good 2 years ago. There'll be other players out there aged 28-32 who are better equipped to improve us.
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Fair point, but going back to the original post, for continuity and avoiding a complete rebuild situation, i can see the value in a 12/24 month deal for Ayling.

TBF Archie Gray is a generational talent, gonna be some player that lad
 
We should certainly have some money in the bank for a re-build if needed. I'd take Ayling, Thomas as another poster said, I would not be surprised one bit if Cameron Archer came back in!! I would also be thinking about Howson's position in the team, he has been a great servant to the club and getting a suitable replacement for him would be ideal in midfield. To bring Howson on for closing games out will be ideal next season. I also still think we need another CB to play alongside Rav, we don't keep clean sheets and that needs addressing. I would also make Rav club captain too, what a player this lad is going to be, as far back as I can remember boro have always had a dominating CB (Mowbray, Pallister, Pearson, Southgate etc). We have the basis of a great championship team just a few tweaks here an there.
 
MickaelDebevePhenomenal said:
If we lose Howson and Paddy, Crooks has already gone, Smith could go, that's a lot of experience. I'd absolutely see the value in signing Ayling, especially with his "fiery character" even if his on pitch performances are a little bit Meh
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I think Howson could stay, but if not it frees up some wages for signing O'Brien who will replace the midfield experience.

From a retaining experience perspective, we have to remember that lots of other players are getting game time this year which will stand them in good stead.

This is kind of where we are, if crooks goes, and the highlighted players are certainly not guaranteed to be here. The majority of our squad is in that 'Foundational' phase, still learning a lot about the game, less than three years experience of league starts. The key signings next year need to be at the top end of of foundational, or in the building category. 3-6 years experience as a starter OR exceptionally talented if in that foundation phase

Veterans (350+):
J Jones
Ayling
Howson

Experienced(250-350):
Smith
Clarke
Lenihan

Building 120-250:
Fry
Dieng
Dijksteel
Barlaser
McGree
O'Brien

Foundation (<120 starts):
Hackney, will have 80+ starts
Rav had 4 league starts in his career. Next season he will have over 45.
Glover
I Jones
Engel
Azaz
Forss
Bangura
Lath
Coburn

Novice (less than 40 starts):
Hoppe
Gilbert
Greenwood
 
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