Laughing
Well-known member
Thats how Labour got wiped out at the 2019 election, because Corbyn didn't care how he was percieved or portrayed in the press.
This is an incredibly naive position to take, from a political standpoint.
Andy McDonald suspended over rally comments
- Thread starter johnsmithsno2
- Start date
This is an incredibly naive position to take, from a political standpoint.
Peter Mandleson also repeated the lie
Should Labour MPS be suspended if people at the top of Labour misquote you as well?
BlindBoyGrunt
Well-known member
But do you not agree that the more we allow ourselves to be cowed, the more ground the right wing press and the Zionists will claim?
One day, we will be hemmed into a Lexical Gaza with no means of escape.
Corcaigh_the_Cat
Well-known member
Without holding the liars and media conmen to account we'll never have democracy and they'll do as they wish
Colin Warnek
Well-known member
Labour won't get a single Muslim voter with Starmer's policy being as it is.
Laughing
Well-known member
What CtC said. How we do that I don't know.
Laughing
Well-known member
Probably if done maliciously.
mercury_redstone7
Well-known member
Well Roofie its better to stand by your convictions and to never have anything to do with the Labour Party again, I quite admire that stance by all the posters on here who wont have anything to do with the Labour party again over this. I wouldn't be surprised if the Momentum members form a new party to follow, as it makes sense.
However I'm baffled by something . If your Avatar is who I think it is - Bernard Montgomery , how on earth can you have him as and avatar someone to look up to when he organised and help kill Palestinians during their revolt in the 1930`s.
I know you mentioned you were in the British Army TA, where did you serve ? and did this put you off war and those that have a pro military stance?
My old fella after he served his time from 14 years old at Dorman Long did his National Service - Royal Artillery in Egypt, he was so proud to be in the British Army. That was until he had to go to a village who were suspected of having sympathies with the enemy.
They were ordered to smash up everything the village of **** poor people had, these were people who were struggling to eke out a living. My old fella was appalled. He ended up hating the officers and thought them brainless sh ite-houses throughout his service and for the rest of his lifetime. He did make lifelong friendships with fellow soldiers.
You have to remember this was Montgomery during the British colonial times, he's a bit like Churchill in so much he's loved and honoured with good reason by many but also he has very tarnished and murderous brutal past.
When Britain turned Palestine into a "second Ireland"
Revered military commander Bernard Montgomery was not bothered about attacks on civilians.
electronicintifada.net
asredastheycome
Well-known member
Anybody watch last night broadcast of Newsnight. Andy MacDonald explained his position perfectly even though Kirsty Wark constantly tried to get him to apologise for his statement.
I can only find it on Iplayer but if you have an account you can watch it here
www.bbc.co.uk
I can only find it on Iplayer but if you have an account you can watch it here
Newsnight - Suspended Labour MP Speaks Out
Labour MP Andy McDonald gives his first interview since he was suspended from the party.
www.bbc.co.uk
Well Roofie its better to stand by your convictions and to never have anything to do with the Labour Party again, I quite admire that stance by all the posters on here who wont have anything to do with the Labour party again over this. I wouldn't be surprised if the Momentum members form a new party to follow, as it makes sense.
However I'm baffled by something . If your Avatar is who I think it is - Bernard Montgomery , how on earth can you have him as and avatar someone to look up to when he organised and help kill Palestinians during their revolt in the 1930`s.
I know you mentioned you were in the British Army TA, where did you serve ? and did this put you off war and those that have a pro military stance?
My old fella after he served his time from 14 years old at Dorman Long did his National Service - Royal Artillery in Egypt, he was so proud to be in the British Army. That was until he had to go to a village who were suspected of having sympathies with the enemy.
They were ordered to smash up everything the village of **** poor people had, these were people who were struggling to eke out a living. My old fella was appalled. He ended up hating the officers and thought them brainless sh ite-houses throughout his service and for the rest of his lifetime. He did make lifelong friendships with fellow soldiers.
You have to remember this was Montgomery during the British colonial times, he's a bit like Churchill in so much he's loved and honoured with good reason by many but also he has very tarnished and murderous brutal past.
When Britain turned Palestine into a "second Ireland"
Revered military commander Bernard Montgomery was not bothered about attacks on civilians.
Oh look its that same post nobody cared about 2 days ago.
Whats the motivation to throw this thread off topic? Make a new one if you want to discuss something totally different.
Couldn't disagree more Laughing. The problem in 2019 is the press ended up completely driving Labours communications. There was about 18 months where Labour didn't publically make their case for any of their policies because they were always talking about the antisemitism allegations.
Apologies get you absolutely nowhere in politics. See Clegg's career after his public apologies for the tuition fees switcheroo. See Cameron, May, Boris, Truss' unapologetic approaches to their constant failings over the last 13 years. See Corbyns desperate attempts to appease the right of the party all through his leadership. It just doesn't work. You're MUCH better off just fronting up against any allegation.
mercury_redstone7
Well-known member
You must have cared !, so I was just waiting for an answer bossman.
How can you state your against violence and the murder of the Palestinians when you have a hero avatar of the very bloke who co-ordinated it and endorsed a shoot to kill policy FFS.
I know Roofie does normally highlight the treatment of the Palestinian, but it would be like endorsing Israel with a picture of Hitler as an avatar
It wasn't trying throw it off topic so sorry.
How can you state your against violence and the murder of the Palestinians when you have a hero avatar of the very bloke who co-ordinated it and endorsed a shoot to kill policy FFS.
I know Roofie does normally highlight the treatment of the Palestinian, but it would be like endorsing Israel with a picture of Hitler as an avatar
It wasn't trying throw it off topic so sorry.
Laughing
Well-known member
I don't think we are disagreeing. The press set Corbyn's agenda because anti-semitism and pro-terroris was their agenda, not Labours. That noise would have drowned everything else out. Corbyns political naievety did for Labour and I say that as someone who liked Corbyn.
Politics is an ugly game. It shouldn't be, but whilst media outlets hold as much power with litle or no accountability, that will continue.
mercury_redstone7
Well-known member
"Politics is an ugly game. It shouldn't be, but whilst media outlets hold as much power with litle or no accountability, that will continue."
That's because most MP`s when being interviewed say by the BBC are afraid to call them out , that they are told by their bosses what side they are on and are bought and paid for Tory mouthpieces.
I now understand what I thought of as idiocy by Donald Trump, when he expressed it as as "the fake media" really does hold some truth, especially in the BBC political department.
The Labour party have to take on the Press and show them up, asking who is paying them to do the Tory dirty work. Surely the games up now.
Perhaps now we have seen that these University educated half-witted incompetent's, have little in their bag of skill sets. I've always thought that when a person is chosen as candidate his/her only marker and skill set in the majority of cases is they have a degree in English or History.
We have to try to begin to head hunt people to be prospective candidates who have real intelligence, experience, as well as an education.
That's because most MP`s when being interviewed say by the BBC are afraid to call them out , that they are told by their bosses what side they are on and are bought and paid for Tory mouthpieces.
I now understand what I thought of as idiocy by Donald Trump, when he expressed it as as "the fake media" really does hold some truth, especially in the BBC political department.
The Labour party have to take on the Press and show them up, asking who is paying them to do the Tory dirty work. Surely the games up now.
Perhaps now we have seen that these University educated half-witted incompetent's, have little in their bag of skill sets. I've always thought that when a person is chosen as candidate his/her only marker and skill set in the majority of cases is they have a degree in English or History.
We have to try to begin to head hunt people to be prospective candidates who have real intelligence, experience, as well as an education.
Unravel_Morrison
Well-known member
That doesn't really matter as politics in the media isn't very nuanced.
It's why people like Rory Stewart who are persuaded by others to go into politics never get the very top jobs.
The current situation in Palestine and Israel is really complex but the general public have been conditioned into thinking that they just need to take a side and I'm sure all of us at some point in time have fallen into that trap.
I'm hoping that Starmer is a serious enough thinker to not fall into the same trap as others have but I think the art of politics in the media might not be for him and he will be eaten up by it.
mercury_redstone7
Well-known member
"The current situation in Palestine and Israel is really complex but the general public have been conditioned into thinking that they just need to take a side and I'm sure all of us at some point in time have fallen into that trap."
Theres a lot cold blooded killing and a lot of down right lies and propaganda from both side that's for sure. The Israelis have declared it a war, so I think this will go on until they have had their fill and feel they have beaten back Hamas. Despite all the best laid plans of mice and men Iran will ensure it will start again at some point.
Theres a lot cold blooded killing and a lot of down right lies and propaganda from both side that's for sure. The Israelis have declared it a war, so I think this will go on until they have had their fill and feel they have beaten back Hamas. Despite all the best laid plans of mice and men Iran will ensure it will start again at some point.
r00fie1
Well-known member
Well Roofie its better to stand by your convictions and to never have anything to do with the Labour Party again, I quite admire that stance by all the posters on here who wont have anything to do with the Labour party again over this. I wouldn't be surprised if the Momentum members form a new party to follow, as it makes sense.
However I'm baffled by something . If your Avatar is who I think it is - Bernard Montgomery , how on earth can you have him as and avatar someone to look up to when he organised and help kill Palestinians during their revolt in the 1930`s.
I know you mentioned you were in the British Army TA, where did you serve ? and did this put you off war and those that have a pro military stance?
My old fella after he served his time from 14 years old at Dorman Long did his National Service - Royal Artillery in Egypt, he was so proud to be in the British Army. That was until he had to go to a village who were suspected of having sympathies with the enemy.
They were ordered to smash up everything the village of **** poor people had, these were people who were struggling to eke out a living. My old fella was appalled. He ended up hating the officers and thought them brainless sh ite-houses throughout his service and for the rest of his lifetime. He did make lifelong friendships with fellow soldiers.
You have to remember this was Montgomery during the British colonial times, he's a bit like Churchill in so much he's loved and honoured with good reason by many but also he has very tarnished and murderous brutal past.
When Britain turned Palestine into a "second Ireland"
Revered military commander Bernard Montgomery was not bothered about attacks on civilians.
Montgomery epitomised those colonialist supremacists I described earlier.Many ordinary familes lost their "Tommy" in the D-Day landings, in North Africa and on the road to Arnhem. Many moons ago I posted the avatar to highlight the irony between his perceived heroics and the reallity for ordinary soldiers. You are the first one to comment and maybe its time he was left in the annals of history.
For me: working with soldiers returned from Iraq, the first Gulf War, Northern Ireland and Afghanistan brought me face to face with the casualties of battle, of war: soldiers without limbs, permanent brain damage, mental health problems where they couldnt cope with exhausts back-firing and bonfire night, seeing soldiers in prison who had lost complete control as a result of face to face contact on the ground i in war zones - like Operation Herrick in Afghan and Telic in Iraq.
My Dad was in Korea - volunteering before he was called up to do National Service. He served over there twice in the "dirty war" - and completed a total of six years service. He was a medical orderly, just behind the front line - out on patrols, supporting wounded troops and bringing back those killed in body bags. He was initially attached to 1st Battalion Royal Leicestershire Regiment. He only ever spoke about the horrors twice [and just shut up when he got half-way through a sentence] No PTSD support in those days. My Mam said he was a "different person" when he came back. He had a violent temper: I wont go into that story.
As for me, I wanted to sign up as a reg when I was 17, but have had a medical condition which meant r00fie couldnt sign permenantly for Queen and Country. I joined the TA and got my first tape up at what was the SSAVC at Bicester. Signaller attached to an infantry unit. The nearest I got to "service" [they say you are not a real soldier until you make your first contact] was when we got moved over to Senelager for training before the first Gulf War. I tried again after 4 years to join as a signaller / comms with the regs, but found my medical condition meant is was thanks-but-no-thanks. I could never understand how we could have live firing exercises [for weeks at a time] with jets chucking schit and artillery softening up schitt just over your head, with an SA80 and being stuck up an officers or platoon commanders arze for days - then be told you aint fit enough! It really pzzd me off. Although what I did didnt count for much compared to most, the lads were a family and - even though I thought our CO was a **** - we still got covered in schit, crawled through tunnels and pizz wet through on Dartmoor, Otterburn, Brecon Beacons. We went on exercise near Claremont Ferrand and the Frog Wagon we had from the airport "broke down" and dragged our kit up a flippin long hillside in the Massif Central` covered in sweat and schitt. Happy days.
I dont go for all this flag-waving crap and saying National Service is a great idea [the forces is not a military correction centre] Although I was a STAB I still think civvis are ****
I decided if I couldnt wear the berret I would go into caring [like my old man had done] and started as a support worker in mental health until I qualified. I`m too flippin old now. When I look at stairs I think "fookin hell! When I was younger, I could run up and down there with 60lbs on my back!" I`ve met people whose experiences I couldnt begin to imagine. My experience all sounds like nothing compared to those who have almost died and seen their mates killed, come back partially blind, mentally and physically wounded for life - but I met a Para who had been on the Falklands. He said he had as much respect for someone who signed to put on the uniform and serve Queen and country when needed, as much as those blokes who`d faced death in the line of fire.
Hope that answers your questions.
For me: working with soldiers returned from Iraq, the first Gulf War, Northern Ireland and Afghanistan brought me face to face with the casualties of battle, of war: soldiers without limbs, permanent brain damage, mental health problems where they couldnt cope with exhausts back-firing and bonfire night, seeing soldiers in prison who had lost complete control as a result of face to face contact on the ground i in war zones - like Operation Herrick in Afghan and Telic in Iraq.
My Dad was in Korea - volunteering before he was called up to do National Service. He served over there twice in the "dirty war" - and completed a total of six years service. He was a medical orderly, just behind the front line - out on patrols, supporting wounded troops and bringing back those killed in body bags. He was initially attached to 1st Battalion Royal Leicestershire Regiment. He only ever spoke about the horrors twice [and just shut up when he got half-way through a sentence] No PTSD support in those days. My Mam said he was a "different person" when he came back. He had a violent temper: I wont go into that story.
As for me, I wanted to sign up as a reg when I was 17, but have had a medical condition which meant r00fie couldnt sign permenantly for Queen and Country. I joined the TA and got my first tape up at what was the SSAVC at Bicester. Signaller attached to an infantry unit. The nearest I got to "service" [they say you are not a real soldier until you make your first contact] was when we got moved over to Senelager for training before the first Gulf War. I tried again after 4 years to join as a signaller / comms with the regs, but found my medical condition meant is was thanks-but-no-thanks. I could never understand how we could have live firing exercises [for weeks at a time] with jets chucking schit and artillery softening up schitt just over your head, with an SA80 and being stuck up an officers or platoon commanders arze for days - then be told you aint fit enough! It really pzzd me off. Although what I did didnt count for much compared to most, the lads were a family and - even though I thought our CO was a **** - we still got covered in schit, crawled through tunnels and pizz wet through on Dartmoor, Otterburn, Brecon Beacons. We went on exercise near Claremont Ferrand and the Frog Wagon we had from the airport "broke down" and dragged our kit up a flippin long hillside in the Massif Central` covered in sweat and schitt. Happy days.
I dont go for all this flag-waving crap and saying National Service is a great idea [the forces is not a military correction centre] Although I was a STAB I still think civvis are ****
I decided if I couldnt wear the berret I would go into caring [like my old man had done] and started as a support worker in mental health until I qualified. I`m too flippin old now. When I look at stairs I think "fookin hell! When I was younger, I could run up and down there with 60lbs on my back!" I`ve met people whose experiences I couldnt begin to imagine. My experience all sounds like nothing compared to those who have almost died and seen their mates killed, come back partially blind, mentally and physically wounded for life - but I met a Para who had been on the Falklands. He said he had as much respect for someone who signed to put on the uniform and serve Queen and country when needed, as much as those blokes who`d faced death in the line of fire.
Hope that answers your questions.
r00fie1
Well-known member
Its alright SuperStu - I`ve answered the question.
mercury_redstone7
Well-known member
It did yeah. Its a good read and I can see you are sincere in your actions. I have been reading you for donkeys (not the football stuff) but your normal political posts and thoughts.
You have always posted and highlighted the Palestinian plight and I hope you don't think I'm against anything you have posted. It just looked a bit odd that a man who posts and highlights the hopelessness felt by Palestinians had Montgomery as his avatar. I hope you forgive me if you thought I was rude or aggressive with it. I didnt mean to be, it was more to highlight Montgomery's back story.
We may be at the different ends of the left spectrum, but I can live with a bit of difference. And for the record I`m not a monarchist.