I’ve not seen that muttley. It ought to save money, in theory, I mean how much is rope or an injection or a bullet (depends which country).
I guess the money is spent on appeals and legal fees.
An apolgy for being hung by the state
- Thread starter Corco65
- Start date
I guess the money is spent on appeals and legal fees.
Apologies if this has detracted from your original post corco.A sad case were an innocent black man was murdered by the state and also the devastating consequences for his family. Sadly racial discrimination still goes on today, and it is as important as ever to keep on challenging it to make sure things like this never happen again.
If you've got a spare 3 minutes an interesting and sad read here.
South Wales Police apology 70 years after hanging injustice
Family get apology after wrongful murder conviction and execution of father in British prison.www.bbc.co.uk
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BLM
TeessideCleveland
Well-known member
But people said that about Kischko - yet if he'd been hanged Castree would never have been caught, and Lesley Molseeds family wouldn't have known that Castree was the evil scum responsible
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So
As I posted above, due to the advances since the turn of the century, it does put convictions beyond doubt.
Dna proves castree did commit the offence. They had that before knowing it was him and then his offending history.
Horrific offending and he could go on the list.
Absolutely terrible ordeal for kitschko and his family. Had the offence occurred in 2006 he wouldn’t have been charged
did Castree definitely commit the crime?
As I posted above, due to the advances since the turn of the century, it does put convictions beyond doubt.
Dna proves castree did commit the offence. They had that before knowing it was him and then his offending history.
Horrific offending and he could go on the list.
Absolutely terrible ordeal for kitschko and his family. Had the offence occurred in 2006 he wouldn’t have been charged
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Smoginexile
Well-known member
I can't bring myself to agree with the death penalty.
But I feel such a hypocrite for typing that.
I remember how Ian Brady taunted the family of his victim by doing just enough to suggest he may "remember" where their loved one is.
I hate that my taxes payed for him to do that for decades until he died.
If I had access to the lever with someone like him I'm not sure I could resist.
But I still think it's not right to risk killing an innocent when we get it wrong.
But I feel such a hypocrite for typing that.
I remember how Ian Brady taunted the family of his victim by doing just enough to suggest he may "remember" where their loved one is.
I hate that my taxes payed for him to do that for decades until he died.
If I had access to the lever with someone like him I'm not sure I could resist.
But I still think it's not right to risk killing an innocent when we get it wrong.
Thing is smog, you’ve named another - Brady.
Some cases are without doubt and stir enough anger/emotion within the population that other murders don’t. Probably not the best words but I’m struggling to find one to explain myself.
What I’m trying to say are some murders are worse than others and they are the ones for the penalty.
Not hypocritical. It’s an emotive crime.
Quicksilvera
Well-known member
I think there is a place for the death penalty especially with DNA and todays technology, I also see the argument for not having it.
Emmersons_BrazillianDong
Well-known member
I'm not referring to cases above and no doubt at all that dna and other advances mean that there are some cases where that's made cases open and shut, but it's still fallable evidence.
There are cases where dna levels need to be interpretered along with other evidence and its not always the panacea that we think it is.
I appreciate these cases are emotive and understand people's hate, but I can't bring myself to agree that we should murder people as a punishment.
Its not cheaper as has been said and all it does is reduce us to their level. An eye for an eye leaves us all eventually blind.
Glover_elbow
Well-known member
Wonderful insight
I do understand peoples view for not having it and the eye for an eye analogy.
I think we all have a case in mind whereby the fact it happened is in no doubt whatsoever and will never be proved wrong. The killing of lee rigby for example or Ian Huntley or Harold shipman.
Would the death penalty serve as a deterrent? Probably not.
Will they ever be released? Probably not
Is it more cost effective to keep them in jail for all of their lives than to kill them? I don’t know enough but as above posted saying it is.
But I ask myself, do these people deserve to live, to taste food, to communicate with their family, to watch tv, to read books, to sleep peacefully on a mattress and in warmth, to imagine places and thoughts and listen to music? And I always answer No they do not.
I think we all have a case in mind whereby the fact it happened is in no doubt whatsoever and will never be proved wrong. The killing of lee rigby for example or Ian Huntley or Harold shipman.
Would the death penalty serve as a deterrent? Probably not.
Will they ever be released? Probably not
Is it more cost effective to keep them in jail for all of their lives than to kill them? I don’t know enough but as above posted saying it is.
But I ask myself, do these people deserve to live, to taste food, to communicate with their family, to watch tv, to read books, to sleep peacefully on a mattress and in warmth, to imagine places and thoughts and listen to music? And I always answer No they do not.
Quicksilvera
Well-known member
As a deterrent, people who commit these kind of abhorrent crimes should as a bare minimum live in absolute squalor, in isolation and should be given absolutely nothing apart from 3 square meals, a cold shower and a mattress.
Norman_Conquest
Well-known member
.
The question you need to ask is what gives us the right to take another person's life?
1finny
Well-known member
I get where you are coming from.
(got to be a ‘but’)
There is little (if any) evidence that deterrent is a concept hardened criminals think about.
Paraphrasing -
They either don’t think they will get caught or act in the spur of the moment.
We have a ‘punitive’ system of justice which means little is spent on education and rehabilitation. Hence our re offend rates are higher than most and per capita we have more in prison.
asredastheycome
Well-known member
Saw an interview on TV years ago with this now long dead t0sser and he said it was perfectly ok if you hung 10 and one of them turned out to be innocent as it was a good percentage that were guilty.
Sir Rhodes Boyson
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Norman_Conquest
Well-known member
The article below is taken from the government's White Paper (December 2021) to rehabilitate offenders. You would think the majority of it would be in place already.
Key measures include:
- A zero-tolerance approach to drugs – all new-build prisons will have cutting-edge body scanners and airport-style security as standard to prevent offenders from continuing criminal activity behind bars
- Getting offenders clean and treating addictions that thwart rehabilitation – assessing all prisoners on arrival for drug and alcohol addictions and putting in place a comprehensive plan to support them to properly recover from day one – including abstinence-based treatment
- Making sure prisoners gain basic standards of numeracy and literacy while inside –ensuring every single prisoner has a basic level of English and maths so they are equipped for work on release, and a new Prisoner Education Service to train up offenders with vocational skills including construction and coding – improving their job prospects and steering them clear of crime
- New drive to get offenders into work – introducing a new job-matching service that pairs offenders up with vacancies in the community on release and dedicated employment advisors in prisons to help offenders find work
- Resettlement Passports to put proper plans in place for prisoners on release – providing all prisoners with a personalised passport that brings together all the things offenders need to start looking for work straight away, including a CV, identification and a bank account as well as vital support services in the community
- New fast-tracked punishments – bringing forward a speedier punishment scheme when prisoners transgress. Penalties will be linked directly to their offence and support rehabilitation, for instance forcing prisoners to repair their cells or prison landings if they cause damage
New prison strategy to rehabilitate offenders and cut crime
White Paper sets out path to modern, innovative jails that protect the public and reform prisoners.
1finny
Well-known member
The article below is taken from the government's White Paper (December 2021) to rehabilitate offenders. You would think the majority of it would be in place already.
Key measures include:
- A zero-tolerance approach to drugs – all new-build prisons will have cutting-edge body scanners and airport-style security as standard to prevent offenders from continuing criminal activity behind bars
- Getting offenders clean and treating addictions that thwart rehabilitation – assessing all prisoners on arrival for drug and alcohol addictions and putting in place a comprehensive plan to support them to properly recover from day one – including abstinence-based treatment
- Making sure prisoners gain basic standards of numeracy and literacy while inside –ensuring every single prisoner has a basic level of English and maths so they are equipped for work on release, and a new Prisoner Education Service to train up offenders with vocational skills including construction and coding – improving their job prospects and steering them clear of crime
- New drive to get offenders into work – introducing a new job-matching service that pairs offenders up with vacancies in the community on release and dedicated employment advisors in prisons to help offenders find work
- Resettlement Passports to put proper plans in place for prisoners on release – providing all prisoners with a personalised passport that brings together all the things offenders need to start looking for work straight away, including a CV, identification and a bank account as well as vital support services in the community
- New fast-tracked punishments – bringing forward a speedier punishment scheme when prisoners transgress. Penalties will be linked directly to their offence and support rehabilitation, for instance forcing prisoners to repair their cells or prison landings if they cause damage
New prison strategy to rehabilitate offenders and cut crime
White Paper sets out path to modern, innovative jails that protect the public and reform prisoners.www.gov.uk
Yes
As an old boss of mine would describe that list - a BGO
Blinding Glimpse of the Obvious
if any of that became policy (apart from the first one) the Daily Mail and others would be frothing at the mouth
I was in Iceland last year - the maximum sentence allowable for anything is (I think) 16 years.
They just believe in a different approach - much like the list above.
It’s hardly become the Wild West out there
The so called developed world of USA and Uk have a particularly draconian justice system and, just putting this out there, not much sign of progress.
They don’t though.
none of that applies to the ‘type’ of person who would get the death penalty as they don’t need educating, rehabilitating etc. they’re never getting out.The article below is taken from the government's White Paper (December 2021) to rehabilitate offenders. You would think the majority of it would be in place already.
Key measures include:
- A zero-tolerance approach to drugs – all new-build prisons will have cutting-edge body scanners and airport-style security as standard to prevent offenders from continuing criminal activity behind bars
- Getting offenders clean and treating addictions that thwart rehabilitation – assessing all prisoners on arrival for drug and alcohol addictions and putting in place a comprehensive plan to support them to properly recover from day one – including abstinence-based treatment
- Making sure prisoners gain basic standards of numeracy and literacy while inside –ensuring every single prisoner has a basic level of English and maths so they are equipped for work on release, and a new Prisoner Education Service to train up offenders with vocational skills including construction and coding – improving their job prospects and steering them clear of crime
- New drive to get offenders into work – introducing a new job-matching service that pairs offenders up with vacancies in the community on release and dedicated employment advisors in prisons to help offenders find work
- Resettlement Passports to put proper plans in place for prisoners on release – providing all prisoners with a personalised passport that brings together all the things offenders need to start looking for work straight away, including a CV, identification and a bank account as well as vital support services in the community
- New fast-tracked punishments – bringing forward a speedier punishment scheme when prisoners transgress. Penalties will be linked directly to their offence and support rehabilitation, for instance forcing prisoners to repair their cells or prison landings if they cause damage
New prison strategy to rehabilitate offenders and cut crime
White Paper sets out path to modern, innovative jails that protect the public and reform prisoners.
We would have the right to take away life if bound in law as they would ultimately, as a punishment for crime committed, fore go their right to life.
Again, it would be for cases talked about with a closed book.
Quicksilvera
Well-known member
I know they don’t which is a disgrace.
I don’t feel it is draconian finny. Remember that the right to justice is free in this country. Prison itself is a holiday with gym time, tvs, fairly comfy beds, flushing toilets and wash facilities, jobs to earn money, a shop to spend the money in, health and dental care, appeals, visits from friends and families and courses etc. most prisoners actually have a telephone in their cell.
That’s not draconian when compared to other countries, even within Europe.