“Attitude and the mindset is, we wanna go and f***ing press”

Nobby_Barnes said:
Oh I see, there's a big difference between short term results and long term results....

Probably the silliest statement I've read on here this year....Congrats 👍
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Well of course there is. You bring a new man in and he's here to build. In going through that building process short term results are going to suffer.

Your inability to get over your opinion being wrong (on keeping Warnock) is blinding your judgement unfortunately 😔
 
I suppose a question is does Wilder's pressing style require more fitness that Warnock's man to man style?

I wouldn't be surprised if the players fitness levels weren't actually that bad, but just not good enough to go man for man for 90 mins, which must be pretty intense.

I suspect it's also slightly different types of fitness required. A heavy press is probably quite stop start. So lots of short sprints with quick recovery time needed between them. Following someone all round the pitch probably requires less sprinting, but you don't get as much recovery time?

So probably not just overall fitness that they'll be looking to improve but the type of fitness I imagine.
 
Warnock was doing OK, Wilder hopefully will do OK too. Warnock didn’t have a squad that suited his style, Wilder doesn’t as it stands. If Bausor finally gets the deals done for players to suit the manager we have - we could do well, if not, we will continue to Bob up and down mid table. All about recruitment as ever.
 
BoroMart said:
it's not the way the game is, it's just the way some teams play. There are sides that are successful with a mid or low block too.
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Majority of teams around Europe use the pressing game. Liverpool, Ajax, Bayern, Sociadad to name four off the top of my head.
 
Randy said:
Majority of teams around Europe use the pressing game. Liverpool, Ajax, Bayern, Sociadad to name four off the top of my head.
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PSG don't prime Barca didn't, Inter don't, Chelsea don't, Man City have adopted more of a mid press these days, of the top of my head.....anyway we're talking about the championship and not every successful champ side does a high press
 
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BoroMart said:
do you think another 6 weeks you would reduce it to 28 mins, or that maybe it's diminishing returns......and these lads are already way up from the baseline that you started on
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Absolutely not boromart, these lads are superfit and it will take time for them to see gains, whereas I am moderately fit so it can happen relatively quickly.
 
Tom_Boro said:
Absolutely not boromart, these lads are superfit and it will take time for them to see gains, whereas I am moderately fit so it can happen relatively quickly.
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Is a fair point on diminishing returns. I guess it depends how fit they really are.

In any event it will be more fun to watch than surrendering the midfield and hoping for a mistake from the opposition defence. Which seemed to be the ethos from warnock.
 
BoroMart said:
prime Barca didn't
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Are you sure? I seem to remember that a major part of the Messi, Xavi, Iniesta era Barca game plan was press hard when the opposition is in possession, then turn it over, back to Tiki-taka. I clearly remember the Champions League final against Man U, where Fergie played into their hands by trying to play out from the back for the entire game. They pressed them hard. It was what Busquets was in the team for.

Given that Pep's City does the same thing, I'd say it's part of the reason for his success.

Not every team can do hard pressing though. For a start a match would be terrible to watch.
 
Laughing said:
Is a fair point on diminishing returns. I guess it depends how fit they really are.

In any event it will be more fun to watch than surrendering the midfield and hoping for a mistake from the opposition defence. Which seemed to be the ethos from warnock.
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If they really are well below the fitness levels expected, then the best thing they can do while building that up, is start to play a possession game.

I don't think we are more than a couple of % below what we should be in fitness, but we rarely have above 46% possession, so we have to do a lot more work without the ball, that really exposes any fitness issues.

The pressing game was mentioned in the thread earlier, but actually, possession is by and large the key. Most successful teams have the most possession. You get the odd freak like Leicester when they won the title, but you can't sustain not having possession over years and be successful.
 
SmogOnTheTees said:
Are you sure? I seem to remember that a major part of the Messi, Xavi, Iniesta era Barca game plan was press hard when the opposition is in possession, then turn it over, back to Tiki-taka. I clearly remember the Champions League final against Man U, where Fergie played into their hands by trying to play out from the back for the entire game. They pressed them hard. It was what Busquets was in the team for.

Given that Pep's City does the same thing, I'd say it's part of the reason for his success.

Not every team can do hard pressing though. For a start a match would be terrible to watch.
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they pressed high for the first 10 seconds, but if the opportunity wasn't their they reverted to immediately delaying and denying forward passing lines and got back in shape. It was rarely a full on high press during most of the Iniesta, xavi era, but then they were together so long, and as a team successful so long that its difficult to define their prime years. I'm talking before Guardiola embedded his philosophy. But he has abandoned that to an extent at City, become more pragmatic about it
 
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