Patrick Bamford on Tony Pulis

atypical_boro said:
TBF thats a long time ago though, transfer fees have gone bonkers since then.
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Mendieta was an out of favour player looking to restart his career with his club looking to reduce wages. Ramirez was one in a similar position who they wanted to get off their wage bill. Viduka was taking advantage of a team heading towards bankruptcy having overspent. We should be taking advantage of other people's largesse, rather than pinpointing specific players and going all out to get them. It's teams that spend wisely rather than big who do well in this league.
 
parmoboy said:
I think following relegation, Gibson felt we had to splash the cash in order to go straight back up. It had worked for Newcastle the previous season, so Gibson must have felt pressurised into thinking we had to do the same.

We really didn't need to do it though, we already had a pretty strong squad for the Championship.

Imagine if instead of spunking £31m on 3 new strikers, we'd have just signed Jota from Brentford for £7m.

This is the team we could have had, and it would have cost significantly less to assemble than Monks' effort.

..................................Randolph............................

Christie.......Ayala..........Gibson...........Friend

..................Clayton.......Leadbitter....................

Traore...................Jota............................Downing

..............................Bamford.......................................
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Yep. I remember watching a press conference when a journalist asked if he had to rip it up and start again. Monk said yes, rather than we have a team that finished in the top four years he last two seasons, so it's a matter of fine tuning rather than rebuilding. I think he spent too much time playing football manager.
 
Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret said:
Well downing and flint were regulars but I don't think that accounts for a drop of 10 - 15 places. That's down to a lack of organisation, trying to play passy-passy football with hoofy-hoofy players and changing your team every week when you're in a losing streak.
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Well aye. I didn't say Woody was doing a good job either. But he's working under different conditions that Pulis was.
 
parmoboy said:
I think following relegation, Gibson felt we had to splash the cash in order to go straight back up. It had worked for Newcastle the previous season, so Gibson must have felt pressurised into thinking we had to do the same.

We really didn't need to do it though, we already had a pretty strong squad for the Championship.

Imagine if instead of spunking £31m on 3 new strikers, we'd have just signed Jota from Brentford for £7m.

This is the team we could have had, and it would have cost significantly less to assemble than Monks' effort.

..................................Randolph............................

Christie.......Ayala..........Gibson...........Friend

..................Clayton.......Leadbitter....................

Traore...................Jota............................Downing

..............................Bamford.......................................
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So also signing Randolph and Christie then? But yes totally agree with the sentiment.

We needed a keeper but just play Fabio and save the Christie fee.

And keep Stuani.

Letting Monk do what he did was a disgrace. It's not as if he was an experienced top level manager with outstanding pedigree. He was essentially a rookie with one and a half good seasons under his belt (and same number of poor ones). Yet we seemed to give him complete control and gambled away any advantage we should have had from promotion.
 
Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret said:
Yep. I remember watching a press conference when a journalist asked if he had to rip it up and start again. Monk said yes, rather than we have a team that finished in the top four years he last two seasons, so it's a matter of fine tuning rather than rebuilding. I think he spent too much time playing football manager.
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When we signed Guedioura, Bamford and Gestede whilst still in the Premier League, it felt underwhelming, however we could have accepted it if was a long-term strategy, and we were preparing for the possibility of relegation, i.e. signing proven Championship players who could do a job for us the following season.

Even sticking with Guedioura, rather than spending £6m on Howson would have probably been a better choice. Guedioura had actually been a decent Championship player, so might have done well for us that season, and I think Howson has always been underwhelming playing in midfield for us.

Ayala/Gibson and Leadbitter/Clayton had provided us with a strong spine during previous Championship seasons, so the obvious thing to do looking back was to go with that, and build around it.
 
The Club accepted the Leeds bid because pulis forced them to. He is a master of spin as above.
Talk to Patrick privately. What do you expect him to say on a Leeds interview aimed at his own fans?

pulis has been on a % of sales based contract everywhere he has been, which is why he is always happy to sell.
It's what started his troubles at Gillingham and why he made so much at Boro.
He's not alone. That type of manager wants rooting out of the game.
 
festa5 said:
So also signing Randolph and Christie then? But yes totally agree with the sentiment.

We needed a keeper but just play Fabio and save the Christie fee.

And keep Stuani.

Letting Monk do what he did was a disgrace. It's not as if he was an experienced top level manager with outstanding pedigree. He was essentially a rookie with one and a half good seasons under his belt (and same number of poor ones). Yet we seemed to give him complete control and gambled away any advantage we should have had from promotion.
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I think a right-back was needed, and to be fair Christie only cost £2.5m?

So that would have been Randolph for £5m, Christie for £2.5m, and Jota for £7m, meaning that team would have cost less to assemble than it cost us to sign Assombalonga alone.
 
indeedido said:
The Club accepted the Leeds bid because pulis forced them to. He is a master of spin as above.
Talk to Patrick privately. What do you expect him to say on a Leeds interview aimed at his own fans?

pulis has been on a % of sales based contract everywhere he has been, which is why he is always happy to sell.
It's what started his troubles at Gillingham and why he made so much at Boro.
He's not alone. That type of manager wants rooting out of the game.
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Gibson must have wanted him to sell, if he was on those terms.

If Bamford blamed Pulis, I'm sure he'd have just said 'Tony was fine' at best, rather than 'I cannot speak highly enough of him', unless of course he genuinely did want to go to Leeds and was truly grateful that Pulis gave him the opportunity.
 
I don't think Gibson would employ a manager who took a percentage of player sales having sacked the previous one for deals he felt were for personal financial benefit rather than to benefit the club. Pulis wanted an ox up front to suit his style and so he sold bamford to bring in hughil.
 
Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret said:
I don't think Gibson would employ a manager who took a percentage of player sales having sacked the previous one for deals he felt were for personal financial benefit rather than to benefit the club. Pulis wanted an ox up front to suit his style and so he sold bamford to bring in hughil.
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I think thats more likely. But Bamford doesn't appear to hold any grudge whatsoever over it.
 
No one on here is saying Pulis saved the club financially, and no one is saying he didn't make mistakes, but he improved the financial situation overall. The rash financial decisions made in 2017 will take till 2021 to fully get over, some were Karanka's and some were Monk's - all approved by SG. It usually take some time for financial actions to impact in both a negative and positive way. The club is likely to benefit from the development of more young players either on the pitch or in transfer fees in, but it takes time e.g. Downing made his debut in 2002 but was sold in 2009 for £10m.
,
The style for football Pulis played was the same all through his tenure at the Boro - Long throws, a mix of long and short ball (more long ball than average), target man, cautious at the back and in midfield its not unique to Pulis and over the years with a constrained budget it works more on getting results, than it doesn't.

Finishing 5th (would have been 4th if in charge all season) and 7th was not bad, not as good as Karanka which was 10th (part season), 4th and 2nd all without parachute payments. Posters on here imply Mogga was our best recent manager his best finish was 7th. In his final season we were in a relegation battle and despite spending money, going backwards.

To be fair football to me doesn't go in straight lines, there are up and downs for managers, when you are in luck and out of luck. A 3 year period is a fair time to judge a manager, looking at the budgets he had and the performances and more importantly the results he got (as its a results business).

On overall scores out of 20 (10 being average)

I would give Pulis 11, Monk 7, Karanka 13, Mowbray 11 for their time at the Boro.
 
It's difficult to compare managers across eras but shouldn't be too difficult when it's over five or six years. However with our last few there is so much debate, maybe the social media influence?

For what it's worth, Monk I feel get's a bad rap considering he was only in charge for a short time and his signings were generally no worse than Pulis's. Mowbray is a tricky one, probably clouded by his hero status as a player, he certainly improved us in his first 18 months or so but his last year was dreadful. Karanka's got to be the best as he achieved the remit. So I would say he's the only recent success and both Mowbray and Pulis were failures. Strachan and Agnew both total disasters!
 
parmoboy said:
Looking back, the club were really short-sighted in their decision to sell Rhodes, especially when there was always going to be a real possibility of relegation. It's infuriating really.

Rhodes probably wasn't good enough for the Premier League, but the guy had a proven track record in the Championship.

Imagine if we could have gone into the following season, with Bamford, Stuani and Rhodes as our forward options.
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Rhodes and Gestede may have rekindled that partnership they had at Blackburn - perish the thought.
 
1finny said:
I think Britt is being judged, by some, today on a transfer that looked good at the time.

He had a great track record of scoring goals and we went and bought him.
I can’t recall, but I don’t think there were many having a go at that decision then - pretty sure it generated a fair bit of excitement.
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The Forest lads I know said it was great receiving such a big wad into the kitty for a player who had been off form and out the team for ages due to injury. He saved them from relegation on the last day of the season!
 
JM14 said:
Where did this rumour start that Pulis kept the club financially afloat? He spend almost 20 million on Saville, Flint and Mcnair as well as big wages for Hugill, Besic, Van La Parra, Mikel on loan. All while being one of the highest paid managers in the clubs history.
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Mainly from himself telling everyone how he was brought in to balance the books etc.
 
Some figures instead of opinions and heresay

Monk spent £40.5m and was in charge for 6 months.

Pulis spent around £20m in 18 months in transfer fees, in the same time he sold around £50m worth of players plus another £5m is likely to be coming in on performance payments on the Bamford and Traore transfers.
 
Actually the facts are that Monk spent £50.1m on 8 players in under 6 months and also borrowed at high cost Lewis Baker, Jack Harrison.
The Club did raise £48.4m moving 12 players on permanently that season and loaned out a number more.

pulis sold only Forshaw and Christie of those for £7.5m, the others had already left under monk.
pulis also loaned in besic and crainie from pl clubs in Jan.

Boro really just terribly re-cycled their relegated squad for an awful one, spending under £2m on fees overall but costing a fortune in wages and agents and a major commitment by Gibson.
They just bought utter shīte.
Braithwaite, Randolph already sold for losses. Christie breaks even.
Howson Shotton and Johnson have no value now, Assombolonga and Fletcher are so bad as to be little more than a bag of balls.
It was stunningly bad round of recruitment.

Then Mr BalancetheBooks gets loads of credit for selling Aitor's Forshaw, Traore, Bamford,Fabio and Barragan at a combined major profit, while selling home grown Gibson.
Then he spunks £19.4m himself on 3 utter nob-jockeys in Flint, Savile and McNair; one of which we have already sold at a major loss and the two others who would only raise a laugh if offered for sale.
Whilst loaning in Mikel, Hugill, besic (again), McQueen, Batth, van la parra and bringing in Lonerghan on a free but not free.
Whilst BalancetheBooks is getting paid a cut on transfers adding up to a package of £80k per week for 18 months of disaster where we are left with a terrible squad and huge problems.

Karanka deserves a 15 on that 1-20 scale. He would have taken us back up and we may not even have gone down had he been backed that January. I'd still far rather have him here now than anything since or any other realistic alternative.
Mowbray deserves the 11 awarded earlier, but we were heading only one way.
Monk deserves 3. At least we got money back on Christie and Randolph saved us the season before last.
BalancetheBooks deserves **** all given he sold the wrong players, bought and loaned in utter rubbish, bored us to tears driving fans away and burgled £6m from the Club in wages and cuts, whilst rimming Mr Gibson.
He is where he should always be and that is unemployed.
 
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