Police at Stoke - Disgusting Behaviour

Assuming just for a moment, that Staffs Police HAD read the threads on here about the behaviour by some of our roaming supporters. That behaviour was, as I recall, consumption of "Charlie" and consequent behaving like rrses including groping of female supporters, not violent confrontation of a hooligan nature. So, as reprehensible and as disgusting as that behaviour is, it should not in any way indicate the need for Police action of the sort we have heard reported from Stoke.

So other than wanting to "win the internets" I haven't a clue what @Tom_Boro is trying to say.
 
Unravel_Morrison said:
I literally live with a copper who works on the West Ham games down here. I asked them about this and they said that where they act on 'intelligence' it's usually highly targeted against certain groups or individuals; rather than across a huge number of fans.

Why don't you just admit Staffs Police messed up with this?
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Actually, that's not correct. The intelligence will determine the category of match and by definatintion football fans are treated as a whole by virtue of the tactics used for any given match.

I wasn't at Stoke but it seems the policing was, in some situations, disproportionate, but it will without any doubt be in response to the 'risk' that Boro travelling supporters present.

I think football supporters are treated poorly in general, but I also accept that it is often the case that supporters have to be treated as a collective too.
 
Tom_Boro said:
That's exactly it, it's a minority and a few isolated incidents, nobody should be made to feel uncomfortable at a football match but what I'm saying is as fans and supporters groups we contribute to our own problems by our words and actions. Problems need reporting at the source and dealt with and a banning order or conviction can happen rather than holding onto it and only discussing it on football forums because then that leads to what happened yesterday and people get away with actual wrongdoing.
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Problem is they arent resolved, just look at the type of complaints the club have had about fans behaviour. Its also way more widespread than a few incidents too
 
Jonny Ingbar said:
Actually, that's not correct. The intelligence will determine the category of match and by definatintion football fans are treated as a whole by virtue of the tactics used for any given match.

I wasn't at Stoke but it seems the policing was, in some situations, disproportionate, but it will without any doubt be in response to the 'risk' that Boro travelling supporters present.

I think football supporters are treated poorly in general, but I also accept that it is often the case that supporters have to be treated as a collective too.
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There was intelligence between the two police forces, there always is but as far as I am aware there was nothing to suggest this kind of reaction ahead of the game. I say, as far as I am aware because I was talking to the Middlesbrough Safety Officer a couple of weeks ago. We should be clear that the policing operation, the cordoning off of all away fans for thirty minutes, without communication and the use of pepper spray and then making us all walk between massed lines of police was intimidating in extreme and completely unprecedented over the past few years. Boro fans were very patient, even when not being told what was going on.
 
JM14 said:
Problem is they arent resolved, just look at the type of complaints the club have had about fans behaviour. Its also way more widespread than a few incidents too
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Where can I see the complaints the club have had about fans behaviour?
 
Tom_Boro said:
You can't
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"Problem is they arent resolved, just look at the type of complaints the club have had about fans behaviour. Its also way more widespread than a few incidents too"

So if I can't see any of the complaints the club has had.. how do we know there are any or what they have been about?
 
newyddion said:
"Problem is they arent resolved, just look at the type of complaints the club have had about fans behaviour. Its also way more widespread than a few incidents too"

So if I can't see any of the complaints the club has had.. how do we know there are any or what they have been about?
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The only thing you can see is from what was posted on the thread about away fans which was what I was referencing
 
Muttley said:
Assuming just for a moment, that Staffs Police HAD read the threads on here about the behaviour by some of our roaming supporters. That behaviour was, as I recall, consumption of "Charlie" and consequent behaving like rrses including groping of female supporters, not violent confrontation of a hooligan nature. So, as reprehensible and as disgusting as that behaviour is, it should not in any way indicate the need for Police action of the sort we have heard reported from Stoke.

So other than wanting to "win the internets" I haven't a clue what @Tom_Boro is trying to say.
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What's "win the internets"?
 
JM14 said:
Look on facebook/twitter. Thread on here a few weeks ago about it too
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Tom_Boro said:
fmttmboro.com

Middlesbrough Supporters Forum Raise Concerns Over Away Support

Hope for the future for positive change is what drives progress: that includes a drugs market on our football concourses. Without hope there is no change for the better. As for schools: respect is earned, not commanded. Leadership is by example from the front, not from the pious pulpit of self...
fmttmboro.com fmttmboro.com

@newyddion
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Cocaine.. it's a national problem. A few daft lads doing sniff in the toilets is nothing new, you can see it in just about EVERY pub in town. It's part of our culture now unfortunaly.. heavily entwined with our drinking culture. The answer isn't kettling fans after the game and spraying pepper spray out of parked up police vans.

The club has had a number of opportunity's over the years to engage with fans.. the original incarnation of Red Faction were initially demonised and now I think fans that would have gravitate towards the ultras have kind of drifted off and lost their way a bit. Educating fans, offering alternatives and managing the fan experience is the only way forward. I think a lot of open and frank discussions need to be had.

The behaviour of the police after the stoke match was dangerous. Exits and entrances blocked created issues once fans got into the stadium.. before the game even kicked off. If any fans had taken ill after the game then I fully believe that they would have struggled to get the required attention in good time. Baiting fans not guilty of any wrongdoing can easily send tempers flaring, pepper spraying folks could have easily turned what should have been a normal stadium exit into a scene of carnage.
 
newyddion said:
"Problem is they arent resolved, just look at the type of complaints the club have had about fans behaviour. Its also way more widespread than a few incidents too"

So if I can't see any of the complaints the club has had.. how do we know there are any or what they have been about?
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Obviously many are confidential - one problem of men using women's toilets was a frequent complaint but was tackled on Saturday by stewards.
The other complaints were regarding behaviour in the ground and on transport. Pretty much all during or before the game, therefore I cannot think there would be any links at all to the police cordon after the game at Stoke.
 
fmttmadmin said:
Obviously many are confidential - one problem of men using women's toilets was a frequent complaint but was tackled on Saturday by stewards.
The other complaints were regarding behaviour in the ground and on transport. Pretty much all during or before the game, therefore I cannot think there would be any links at all to the police cordon after the game at Stoke.
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Its not the first time Rob.
I`ve visited Stoke`s ground with the Boro three times and on every occasion its been a place of passive aggression and provocation by the police and their stewards.
They wont get any more of my money. (n)
 
fmttmadmin said:
Obviously many are confidential - one problem of men using women's toilets was a frequent complaint but was tackled on Saturday by stewards.
The other complaints were regarding behaviour in the ground and on transport. Pretty much all during or before the game, therefore I cannot think there would be any links at all to the police cordon after the game at Stoke.
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It was far too heavy handed Rob, I'm glad my kids aren't old enough to attend games yet. The police overwatch afterwards you'd have thought we were all heading to the nick.
 
I was reading somewhere that policing strategy is decided 2 to 3 weeks in advance of the game. . Unfortunately you wont get anything from the police all previous freedom of information act requests into police numbers for specific match fixtures have been rejected on the premise it could impact future operations.
What I cant believe is a small amount of incidents with no impact on opposition fans would change the risk level of the game
 
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