Blair & Brown: The New Labour Revolution

SuperStu said:
It's mad to me that anyone saying Blair isn't toxic could accuse others of having their head in the sand.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1445773120623677446

He'd be worse even than Starmer. And an absolute gift to the tories.



Blairs last election was 2005, the Chilcot report wasn't out until 2016.



The right of the party pushed Miliband to do OMOV back then, because they were under the impression they were really popular and would always win. Also those are the rules Starmer's been elected under so hardly ensures a left wing leader. One out of two so far.
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Oh sorry I thought everybody knew back in the day the Iraq invasion was illegal and unjust, didn't realise it took till 2016 for this to be known, I obviously apologise for this oversight.

As for Blairs ratings, the country voted for the buffoon we have now so I wouldn't be reading too much in to polls

As with anything I suppose you look back with tinted glasses, I was 22 when Blair was first elected to office and just remember the feeling in the country changed from 94 onwards.

I think Blair should come back but only if it means Roobo comes back to us and Keegan takes over up the road. Oh and Oasis play Knebworth again 😉
 
SuperStu said:
It's mad to me that anyone saying Blair isn't toxic could accuse others of having their head in the sand.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1445773120623677446

He'd be worse even than Starmer. And an absolute gift to the tories.



Blairs last election was 2005, the Chilcot report wasn't out until 2016.



The right of the party pushed Miliband to do OMOV back then, because they were under the impression they were really popular and would always win. Also those are the rules Starmer's been elected under so hardly ensures a left wing leader. One out of two so far.
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I think that shows why Labour aren't winning elections!
 
Pak_Doo_Ik said:
Oh sorry I thought everybody knew back in the day the Iraq invasion was illegal and unjust, didn't realise it took till 2016 for this to be known, I obviously apologise for this oversight.
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Simply pointing out, as Lefty did also, that just because the Iraq war didn't sink Blair in 2005 doesn't mean it wouldn't now. Things change.

Pak_Doo_Ik said:
As for Blairs ratings, the country voted for the buffoon we have now so I wouldn't be reading too much in to polls
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Agree, don't read too much into them. It's only a poll of 2019 Labour voters afterall. But it's something to note and consider as a starting point: a Blair leadership for Labour now, might reduce the party's current support further but who knows maybe he'd pick up millions of tory voters to make up for that.

Otto42 said:
I think that shows why Labour aren't winning elections!
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I don't think there's much correlation tbh. Corbyn and Kinnock both lost two each and are top and bottom of that list.
 
SuperStu said:
Simply pointing out, as Lefty did also, that just because the Iraq war didn't sink Blair in 2005 doesn't mean it wouldn't now. Things change.



Agree, don't read too much into them. It's only a poll of 2019 Labour voters afterall. But it's something to note and consider as a starting point: a Blair leadership for Labour now, might reduce the party's current support further but who knows maybe he'd pick up millions of tory voters to make up for that.



I don't think there's much correlation tbh. Corbyn and Kinnock both lost two each and are top and bottom of that list.
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Blair won three and is also bottom of the list, that's the reason for my conclusion.

I also remember in the early 80s when it was fashionable amongst the CND crowd to pillory Harold Wilson.

Labour's singularly failed to learn from it's past since 2010. If I am lucky we might get another Labour government in my lifetime!
 
bumface said:
I'm in agreement with Lefty here. That is something that I never thought that I'd find myself typing on here. It'll probably never happen again so make the most of it. Lefty definitely isn't 'ultra left'. Not even 'left' at all from my point of view. Very few people on here are. And he's not a 'numb-nut' either. Maybe just a bit of a 'Silly Billy' or a 'nincompoop'.
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There you go, I'm only a slight centrist silly billy nincompoop, not a full on far left numb-nut like @bumface , so that's encouraging. ;)
 
MolteniArcore said:
2 pages in and this thread turned into a vvankathon over Jeremy Corbyn, the leader who failed to get labour elected and put Johnson in power.

Give me strength. Johnson will be in power for years if this lot get their way.
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Not sure that I'd ever get anywhere if I were to attempt a Jeremy Corbyn vvankathon with my 'far left numb-nuts' mate. Would seem like a pretty futile endeavour.
 
Lefty said:
Are you advocating communism?
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Just messing about and playing up to this ridiculous notion that I'm 'hard left' mate. I'm really not. I'm just left. Just like Corbyn. But I'm younger and far better looking than he is, obviously.
 
bumface said:
Just messing about and playing up to this ridiculous notion that I'm 'hard left' mate. I'm really not. I'm just left. Just like Corbyn. But I'm younger and far better looking than he is, obviously.
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Then the difference between is in terms of our preferred end position is likely to be not that far apart.

What differs is our approach to how we get there.
 
Just caught up on the first two episodes. Apart from the Blair/ Brown discussion one thing that struck me was the resignation of Peter Mandelson. He went because he didn’t represent the honourable above reproach image the new Labour Government had campaigned on when they ousted the sleazy Major Conservative Government.

He didn’t declare a loan given to him personally by a friend and fellow Labour MP to buy himself a home before he came to office. Now when you compare that with the recent

1. Contract Patronage given by Secretary of State for Health to his pals who supplied useless PPE and a Track and Trace system

2. Minister for Housing who allowed his Tory donating mate to avoid property planning laws

3 A PM who gave public money to his mistress in public office (amongst many other misdemeanours)

none of which led to a resignation. Well we live in worrying dishonourable times and a culture now where being dishonesty and sleaze doesn’t bar you from office anymore.
 
Cardiffdaffs said:
Just caught up on the first two episodes. Apart from the Blair/ Brown discussion one thing that struck me was the resignation of Peter Mandelson. He went because he didn’t represent the honourable above reproach image the new Labour Government had campaigned on when they ousted the sleazy Major Conservative Government.

He didn’t declare a loan given to him personally by a friend and fellow Labour MP to buy himself a home before he came to office. Now when you compare that with the recent

1. Contract Patronage given by Secretary of State for Health to his pals who supplied useless PPE and a Track and Trace system

2. Minister for Housing who allowed his Tory donating mate to avoid property planning laws

3 A PM who gave public money to his mistress in public office (amongst many other misdemeanours)

none of which led to a resignation. Well we live in worrying dishonourable times and a culture now where being dishonesty and sleaze doesn’t bar you from office anymore.
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This current Conservative party is on another level of dishonesty, corruption, arrogance and incompetence to any I have known, but it is rewarded for it by the electorate.
 
Otto42 said:
Spot on. Labour didn't lose in 2010 because of Iraq, it was because voters preferred the more charismatic Clegg and Cameron to the dour Brown. Only the really politically engaged....maybe 20 to 25% of the population... vote on policy, with about 30 to 40% not bothering that gives a big proportion voting for the people they like best!
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Losing the MSM played a big part in brown's defeat.
They are still doing it today, when they turn on you you're sunk
 
Interesting bit about the winter flu crisis of 2000. Hospitals barely coping etc. No-one even remembers it now.
 
TeessideCleveland said:
Blair and Alistair Campbell both praised John Prescott (and I never tire of seeing him Tv,vatting the mullet-haired egg thrower)
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I've had business dealings with John Prescott and he is a horrible horrible man. On the other hand I have also had business dealings with Alan Johnson who is a wonderful man and real gent.
 
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