Wow. Latest Hartlepool polling...

HolgateCorner said:
In fairness Corbyn fought two elections
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Yes...

HolgateCorner said:
he was given a good run at becoming PM
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No.

Why pretend? The 2016 chicken coup and leadership challenge were before either of the general elections he contested so it's patently wrong to claim he was generously given anything. Furthermore, we know now the most senior staff in the party were sabotaging during at least one of those elections. In what way is that a 'good run'?

It'd be better for Labour to just get the Forde enquiry out asap, rip off the plaster, and admit Corbyn was stitched up. He's not coming back as leader anyway so there's no risk to the centrists in charge now. But trying to rewrite the history just won't work in the internet era.
 
InglebyUTB said:
Which is a fair opinion.

But the PLP wanted him out immediately, when he retained seats.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1389532963206017025
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Yes and I thought they were wrong, Corbyn proved in 2017 he could pull in the votes.

Labour division is nothing new, it also affected them badly in the 1980’s.

The Tories are always good at uniting behind their leader at election times because they put being in power before any ideology they may have.
 
SuperStu said:
Yes...



No.

Why pretend? The 2016 chicken coup and leadership challenge were before either of the general elections he contested so it's patently wrong to claim he was generously given anything. Furthermore, we know now the most senior staff in the party were sabotaging during at least one of those elections. In what way is that a 'good run'?

It'd be better for Labour to just get the Forde enquiry out asap, rip off the plaster, and admit Corbyn was stitched up. He's not coming back as leader anyway so there's no risk to the centrists in charge now. But trying to rewrite the history just won't work in the internet era.
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I think your post makes a different point to me saying he fought 2 elections, which he did, and he nearly won one of them with a massive vote so he can’t have been that undermined?
 
SuperStu said:
Who's asking for a manifesto?

The fact is while Corbyn was leader he massively increased the number of Labour members and voters - even if admittedly it wasn't enough for an election win, and even if admittedly it translated in to a pretty sh*t number of seats in 2019. He obviously had an appeal to a number of people.

If the party is going to brand itself as "Under New Management!" and kick Corbyn out the PLP, surely it would just be perfectly sensible to also do something, anything, to give an indication that you want to keep the members and voters Corbyn brought. Otherwise what are they supposed to be voting for?he's goingvto lead the party
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HolgateCorner said:
I think your post makes a different point to me saying he fought 2 elections, which he did, and he nearly won one of them with a massive vote so he can’t have been that undermined?
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I liked corbyn and he did do well in 2017 but to say he nearly won is a bit of a stretch, the tories won 98 more seats than Labour
 
jam69 said:
I liked corbyn and he did do well in 2017 but to say he nearly won is a bit of a stretch, the tories won 98 more seats than Labour
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Nah, it was 56 seats. May lost her majority and bought it with our money from the DUP. Seat wise, Corbyn was less than 3000 votes from winning, and that was with all the s**t that was thrown at him for two years.
 
Corbyn was not given a chance to begin with. Shame on those in the PLP, who knew him, worked with him and judged he would be a disaster. Regardless that they were right, shame on them.

2017 was one in the eye for them. However a lot of Remain people tactically voted Labour, in order to thwart Theresa May and her snap Brexit election, which helped but those votes were then misrepresented by Corbyn's inner circle as a vote for Brexit, thus alienating them for the future. We saw that in the European elections and in 2019. 2017 was still a loss when even by then a majority of the country thought Leaving the EU was a mistake.

Corbyn lost three elections and a referendum, the 2016 local elections were meh, 2017's were better but there was a substantial London element to that. Locally, for an opposition leader, Corbyn should have done better. Miliband had much more of an impact in 2014, for instance.

Corbyn was a nice bloke, decent policies on the whole, bad choice of friends/advisors, blind spot handling the Jewish issue, but ultimately just not a good leader. The PLP were bang out of order in 2015/16, but they were also right.
 
Lefty said:
Shame on those in the PLP, who knew him, worked with him and judged he would be a disaster. Regardless that they were right, shame on them.
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Lefty said:
The PLP were bang out of order in 2015/16, but they were also right.
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Nah sorry lefty you can't say "they were right" imho, given the sabotage. We'll never know if they were right or not now.

It's akin to saying that Karanka would have kept us up in the premier league if he hadn't been sacked, and pointing to the fact we went down after sacking him as proof that that's right.
 
TeessideCleveland said:
Labours worst election defeat in 80 years in 2019 under Corbyn, but he 'won the argument'
Surprised he resigned if he was doing so well
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Not even close. Labour’s worst general election performance of the post-war years was in 1983, with 27.6% of the vote and 209 seats.
But addresing your point, do you think there was anything going on in the Labour party during Corbyn's leadership to achieve that 2019 defeat?
 
Parties do their own exit polling don't they. Illegal to publish the results before the polls close but they obviously whisper leaks to their mates.
 
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