How can anyone take the Labour Party seriously any more.

I don't want to get into the details though there are many things within the Labour party at the moment that are a clip and I've been extremely disappointed since Sir Keir Starmer became the leader of the opposition.

Initially, I was quite optimistic. Then I saw how he assembled his Shadow Cabinet and started to wonder .. but decided to try forget it, get behind it regardless.

It's been a total flop. His approach so far seems to be more aimed at working with the Govt rather than doing his actual job, challenge the Govt and Johnson and ask the right questions. He's been powderpuff in his performance and I am not entirely sure what his real strategy is. Considering the state of this current lot in Downing St. ... it feels like he misses open goal after open goal, frightened he'll upset the right. He's both cowardly and confused to me. I had hoped for good things but he's been in the position long enough now to get an idea of what we're getting, which is not much.

I understand we're in a tough situation with Covid etc and both sides do have to work together in this case with certain aspects of the problem, but even the rest of the issues within Govt that must be challenged, to me it's as if Keir will just acquiesce with Johnson rather than ask hard questions and show a spine.

I like Lisa Nandy. She's brilliant I think, and I wish I'd voted for her as leader. Sticking with Starmer, who's got about as much charisma as a wet paper bag, there'll be at least another decade of Tory leadership in no.10

As a Labour voter, it's depressing. There's a tonne of ***** to fix. If there was a GE now they'd get slaughtered (again)
 
HolgateCorner said:
You were doing well until you put ‘as a life long Labour voter’.

If the country wants to vote Tory then that’s democracy isn’t it?

Labour cannot force voters to vote for a more fair and equal society if that’s not what Joe public wants.
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Why was i doing well until I wrote that? Not sure what you mean
 
Cosmonaut said:
I don't want to get into the details though there are many things within the Labour party at the moment that are a clip and I've been extremely disappointed since Sir Keir Starmer became the leader of the opposition.

Initially, I was quite optimistic. Then I saw how he assembled his Shadow Cabinet and started to wonder .. but decided to try forget it, get behind it regardless.

It's been a total flop. His approach so far seems to be more aimed at working with the Govt rather than doing his actual job, challenge the Govt and Johnson and ask the right questions. He's been powderpuff in his performance and I am not entirely sure what his real strategy is. Considering the state of this current lot in Downing St. ... it feels like he misses open goal after open goal, frightened he'll upset the right. He's both cowardly and confused to me. I had hoped for good things but he's been in the position long enough now to get an idea of what we're getting, which is not much.

I understand we're in a tough situation with Covid etc and both sides do have to work together in this case with certain aspects of the problem, but even the rest of the issues within Govt that must be challenged, to me it's as if Keir will just acquiesce with Johnson rather than ask hard questions and show a spine.

I like Lisa Nandy. She's brilliant I think, and I wish I'd voted for her as leader. Sticking with Starmer, who's got about as much charisma as a wet paper bag, there'll be at least another decade of Tory leadership in no.10

As a Labour voter, it's depressing. There's a tonne of ***** to fix. If there was a GE now they'd get slaughtered (again)
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Looks like you will have to vote Tory then.
 
Londons_Moggie said:
Why was i doing well until I wrote that? Not sure what you mean
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Just vote Tory then if Labour aren’t for you.

Starmer was polling 41% a couple of weeks ago, I note above he has supposedly lost votes to the Lib Dem’s and the Greens who have said nothing since the election.

It’s volatile and will become even more volatile in the coming months, the vaccine rollout is going to slow down and the tax rises and unemployment are coming. Let’s see how people feel then?
 
Cosmonaut said:
His approach so far seems to be more aimed at working with the Govt rather than doing his actual job, challenge the Govt and Johnson and ask the right questions.
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If he had not done so he would have been accused, with some justification, of using the pandemic for political advantage
HolgateCorner said:
Just vote Tory then if Labour aren’t for you.
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Exactly plainly you think Tory.
 
HolgateCorner said:
Just vote Tory then if Labour aren’t for you.

Starmer was polling 41% a couple of weeks ago, I note above he has supposedly lost votes to the Lib Dem’s and the Greens who have said nothing since the election.

It’s volatile and will become even more volatile in the coming months, the vaccine rollout is going to slow down and the tax rises and unemployment are coming. Let’s see how people feel then?
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Why? Boro weren’t for me last season I still supported them and went to the games.

You don’t get to decide who should or shouldn’t become disillusioned with the party. If you want to back a dead horse then go for it. if all you do is follow and never challenge the party regardless of how inept they are then you are brainwashed. As long as people back them and tell them it’s ok they’ll never get the message. They are currently a laughing stock unfortunately and I don’t see that changing. They’re bringing in Mandelson and talking of embracing the union flag. You couldn’t make it up.

I don’t think there is a scenario I can envisage that would win back those lost voters. They’re gone for life.
 
Londons_Moggie said:
Why? Boro weren’t for me last season I still supported them and went to the games.

You don’t get to decide who should or shouldn’t become disillusioned with the party. If you want to back a dead horse then go for it. if all you do is follow and never challenge the party regardless of how inept they are then you are brainwashed. As long as people back them and tell them it’s ok they’ll never get the message. They are currently a laughing stock unfortunately and I don’t see that changing. They’re bringing in Mandelson and talking of embracing the union flag. You couldn’t make it up.

I don’t think there is a scenario I can envisage that would win back those lost voters. They’re gone for life.
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So if the Labour Party ran on a manifesto of investing in the NHS and our crumbling infrastructure while focusing taxation on those that can afford it, you think people wouldn't vote for that because they spoke to Mandelson and embraced our flag?

Being critical is one thing, being overly critical to the point of attacking everything they do just because is another.
 
Londons_Moggie said:
Why? Boro weren’t for me last season I still supported them and went to the games.

You don’t get to decide who should or shouldn’t become disillusioned with the party. If you want to back a dead horse then go for it. if all you do is follow and never challenge the party regardless of how inept they are then you are brainwashed. As long as people back them and tell them it’s ok they’ll never get the message. They are currently a laughing stock unfortunately and I don’t see that changing. They’re bringing in Mandelson and talking of embracing the union flag. You couldn’t make it up.

I don’t think there is a scenario I can envisage that would win back those lost voters. They’re gone for life.
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Apologies I did not mean to wind you up like that.

Nothing is for life with votes and political parties.

I just disagree with you.

My view is that Johnson and the Tories will be in terrible trouble with the full effects of a bankrupt economy emerging over the next couple of years and the next election will be fought on policies more suited to Labour.
 
Chris_Boro said:
So if the Labour Party ran on a manifesto of investing in the NHS and our crumbling infrastructure while focusing taxation on those that can afford it, you think people wouldn't vote for that because they spoke to Mandelson and embraced our flag?

Being critical is one thing, being overly critical to the point of attacking everything they do just because is another.
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The electorate would certainly look at those NHS and tax policies, but they'd wonder if Labour could deliver and execute them. And they'd look at the other policies in the manifesto and wonder the same. What sinks Labour is feature creep - the continual adding of new things that people aren't sure they need. Adding complexity, cost and losing clarity just doesn't appeal to the electorate. I'm not sure it ever did, now it needs to be crystal clear and snappy. "Get Brexit done".

I don't see any sign that Labour learned anything from 2019's election. They seem to be heading down ever more arcane rabbit holes.
 
HolgateCorner said:
Apologies I did not mean to wind you up like that.

Nothing is for life with votes and political parties.

I just disagree with you.

My view is that Johnson and the Tories will be in terrible trouble with the full effects of a bankrupt economy emerging over the next couple of years and the next election will be fought on policies more suited to Labour.
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HolgateCorner, that why I enjoy reading your posts, you're always fair minded put a good point across & even apologise if someone accusses you of winding them up, so not to create an argument, refreshing
 
Ha ha deary me .. perhaps I didn't explain myself well enough, I'm a bit tired today. I will absolutely never vote Tory in my life. Never.
 
Muttley said:
If he had not done so he would have been accused, with some justification, of using the pandemic for political advantage

Exactly plainly you think Tory.
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Yes, I agree. Regarding Covid etc, working across both sides is essential but I didn't mean just that one thing alone. I think he has done the right thing in this instance. I should have said, but otherwise, I've just been underwhelmed by his leadership so far. I hope it improves. I will always vote Labour, always have.

Just feel negative about things at the moment and not sure if Starmer is the right man. I'm probably wrong, fair enough. I hope he goes on to prove so.
 
Soutra said:
The electorate would certainly look at those NHS and tax policies, but they'd wonder if Labour could deliver and execute them. And they'd look at the other policies in the manifesto and wonder the same. What sinks Labour is feature creep - the continual adding of new things that people aren't sure they need. Adding complexity, cost and losing clarity just doesn't appeal to the electorate. I'm not sure it ever did, now it needs to be crystal clear and snappy. "Get Brexit done".

I don't see any sign that Labour learned anything from 2019's election. They seem to be heading down ever more arcane rabbit holes.
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Definitely agree Labour need a clear message at the next election and only time will tell if they have learnt from 2019. Still early days unless something implodes the Tories.
 
The amount of ex life long labour voters in here, iam amazed tge tories ever won a election
 
Erimus74 said:
HolgateCorner, that why I enjoy reading your posts, you're always fair minded put a good point across & even apologise if someone accusses you of winding them up, so not to create an argument, refreshing
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Thanks for the very kind words Erimus 74, I think we all have to try to be careful just now when we enter arguments and debates, these are very trying times for all of us but on the plus side if venting some frustrations on here without it getting too out of hand helps people to cope with life at the moment then that can’t be a bad thing either.
 
Cosmonaut said:
Ha ha deary me .. perhaps I didn't explain myself well enough, I'm a bit tired today. I will absolutely never vote Tory in my life. Never.
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Same - it’s ideological with me I’m just opposed to what they believe in. The fact that they have Johnson as leader and have made a right mess of the pandemic is irrelevant in terms of my voting intentions
 
Benjiboy said:
corbyn mcdonnell crowd still set the agenda , hence they are out of touch still
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Eh? Corbyns not even got the whip and McDonnells been silent since Starmer took over. They're nowhere near setting the agenda these days.

Tbh I think part of the problem is that Starmer's side of the party got so used to attacking Corbyn and McDonnell over the last 5 years that now they've won they don't really know what else to do.
 
bear66 said:
The abolition of trade union laws, which would lead to the return of flying pickets and general strikes;
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I haven't clicked on the article but reading the thread it seems like this may be from the Daily Mail? Classic ridiculous hyperbole from them. We've had 1 general strike ever, nearly a 100 years ago, in a much more politically engaged time. There's no chance any change in laws would take us back to that now. We just don't have the culture for that sort of direct action.
 
Surely one of the biggest problems labour have is that they're being judged on much much higher standards than the Tories are. It's not remotely a level playing field.

The majority of criticism you can level at labour, also applies to the Tories and then some. Yet some people slaughter labour for it and use that as a way to justify voting for the cabal of conmen currently running the country. Either that or people abstain thinking they're making a moral stance, but in reality they're facilitating more Tory rule.

Labour absolutely need to do better, be smarter and understand how to win votes more. The fact the system is rigged against them makes that even more important.

But the way some go on you do wonder if some are oblivious to just how utterly inept the self serving shower currently running the show are. All things being sensible labour shouldn't need to do anything to get into power. This is probably the worst government we've ever had.

Instead it seems labour need to be whiter than white, with a leader who is some sort of cross between Kennedy and Nelson Mandela, just to have any sort of chance against the keystone cops led by Worzel Gummage. It's utterly bonkers.

For all that Blair was a canny political operator, he still needed to jump in bed with Murdoch to win elections. For all the talk of policies and "strong opposition" getting the media on your side is still probably the key factor depressingly.
 
Londons_Moggie said:
I just don't see how a man who is losing in the polls to a man responsible for 100K deaths is going to win an election. The lent votes will likely never go back despite what happens with Brexit or the pandemic. Labour's stance on trying to reverse the democratic Brexit vote lost swaths of voters they'll never get back. It was arguably the greatest piece of political suicide in my lifetime. sneering at your voters is never a way to win their trust. That trust has been eradicated and it'll never come back. I just don't see how they can possibly win any future elections when millions on principal will refuse to vote for them. I genuinely believe they are on the verge. If the Tories post Brexit plans to bring jobs to working class areas, that's Labour done for. As a life long Labour voter I would not vote for them at present
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After 4 election defeats on the trot, there should have been major reform of the Labour Party, not appointing Blair’s old DPP. After 5 election defeats, maybe the penny will drop
 
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