All their efforts, plus that of the MSM resulted in a hung parliament, and you say they were right? They were only right because they made it right. Be honest, have you ever known a party sabotage their own election chances purposely?
Hung, for about 10 minutes, with Tories having 60 more seats than Labour, until they paid the DUP off, which ultimately meant they were in charge with a majority, and Labour were not unfortunately.
It's an incontrovertible fact that they deliberately tried to lose. They thought they were going to lose anyway and worked to make the scale of the loss as large as possible.
Hung, After all of the above. What might have been had they actually tried to win the election makes the whole thing utterly reprehensible.
Labour’s vote went down because, like never before, labour voters realised that where Lib Dem’s had the best chance of winning in their area it was the wise thing to do and vote tactically for the Lib Dem’s.
As well as all the media outlets and I’m pleased Corbyn didn’t get in…he’s too left wing ffs.
That's not what happened according to the numbers. Labour and Lib Dems both got fewer votes than they did in 2019. 10.2m down to 9.7m for Labour and 3.7m down to 3.5m for Lib Dems. The big changes were that the Tories dropped from 14m to 6.8m. Those 7m voters either voted for Reform 0.6m (Brexit Party) up to 4.1m or didn't vote at all (total turnout 28.8m down from 32m).
People who are swing voters realised they were on a hiding to nothing to continue voting Tory so reassessed their thinking.
I agree with both of what you're saying, I think
It's very complicated and I think there are many things at play though.
Good point and I agree.
thoughtful Post and nothing I don’t agree with.I agree with both of what you're saying, I think
The left (Labour and greens) were up 0.4m since 2019 though, so they mostly voted somewhere, if it was the same voters (might not have been). Labour votes went in labour seats and Lib dem votes went into lib dem seats though, rather than being spread around, quite a lot of that was tactical voting, and some not voting I think. I don't think many of those seats went tory or reform, as labour/ LD clubbed in enough to make it not happen. Obviously a lot of that was the right didn't turn out and fought each other also.
It's not just Labours 412 seats though, the LD's got ~72 too, their most I've seen I think. It was very efficient for both, 484 in total, some going.
Loads on the labour left might not have been happy with labour, but might have just not voted as it was in the bag anyway? They're possibly more likely to not vote than the more central Labour or swing voters etc? There seem to be a quite a few more central voters or starmer supporters on here who still voted labour and most I know did and were very vocal on that. The only ones I know which didn't were those further left etc, but they're were all vocal in that too and saying Labour were going to win anyway etc. They didn't really appear to fear a loss, to reform or Tories.
The right (con and reform) lost 3.7m votes from 2019, and similar to 15 and 17 etc, it's like the right have given up, but the rest haven't, to me. Maybe some of them have died off too or just got to the point where they can no longer be arsed voting?
By voting for a party you're also pretty much voting against other parties, maybe as many tories were not as scared by Starmer as they were Corbyn etc? The Right love to vote when they're annoyed and riled up etc, and the press made sure Corbyn riled them up.
Looking back, 2017 to me looks like an outlier for Labours numbers, looks like a brexit vote split as the brexit vote itself was though, loads voted Labour then in hope as an anti-brexit vote, but by 2019 basically had given up or had enough of Brexit talk or lost faith in Corbyn.
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. Chunts.
Yeah, boundary changes won't have been done to help Labour that's for sure, as far as seats go, but probably never made a big difference to turnout and percentages.Good point and I agree.
People deserted the
thoughtful Post and nothing I don’t agree with.
Add to it was the boundary changes which added a further layer of complexity
It requires someone (in labour and lib dem HQs) is great with these things to compile everything and understand the picture because if those two parties can collaborate again like that we could see an end to this right wing nut job seizing power on the back of lies…small state = terrible public services BUT you’re taxes will be low
I read about the boundary changes and it is a cross party exercise and the boundary commission decides (I think) on the fair changes required.
Little to with boundaries.I read about the boundary changes and it is a cross party exercise and the boundary commission decides (I think) on the fair changes required.
The government can block it from happening and did so previously but perhaps pressure to keep blocking the process was more and more prominent….
So it looks like the Tories were pressured into doing it or allowing it and the changes actually benefited labour and the Lib Dem’s but perhaps only because, as you said, the swing voters who previously voted Tory either switched or stayed at home or voted reform.
Wonderful seeing them Tories buried
www.thelondoneconomic.com
No data published but according to the map Labour would have still won in Redcar & Cleveland regardless of Reform.The London Economic have done a study looking at what would have happened if Reform had stood down in the same way the Brexit Party did in 2019.
Lots more tight races, Mordaunt would have retained her seat for example, but it would still have been a Labour Govt with a majority of 120.
This is how the electoral map would have looked if Reform hadn't fielded any candidates
The presence of Nigel Farage's Reform UK was widely believed to have split the vote among would-be Tory voters.
It was clearly Tories staying at home which lost it for the Tories. They lost 7m votes from 2019. Some of them voted Reform but a lot also just stayed at home.
I'm just talking about the Redcar constituency. Another poster is adamant that Labour would not have won had Reform not split the right wing vote.
2017 and 2019 were heavily affected by brexit, it's hard to compare those as the remain/ leave thing was massively important to most voters then. 20% more voters voted in the referendum than this election, but I think most agree now that the referendum has been and gone, and there's no real route back in for this election term at least, people will lose interest in that. No matter what you tell people, loads still think "they're all the same", when it's clearly not the case.