Worst Excess Deaths in UK since WW2
- Thread starter kuepper
- Start date
Low_Key
Well-known member
i'm not disputing the deaths or covid at all but the 5 year trend is a load of b***ks and only 5 years to drive the agenda. what about 10, 15 or 20 year trend?
look at the last line:
"This is the largest increase, or “excess”, in a single year since 1940. It is likely to return death rates in the UK to levels last seen in the mid-2000s."
so how bad does this look with comparison to the 2000s.
i'm not denying covid but it shows again how data can be manipulated to suit. quite happy to eat my hat on this one if anyone has longer term data
look at the last line:
"This is the largest increase, or “excess”, in a single year since 1940. It is likely to return death rates in the UK to levels last seen in the mid-2000s."
so how bad does this look with comparison to the 2000s.
i'm not denying covid but it shows again how data can be manipulated to suit. quite happy to eat my hat on this one if anyone has longer term data
bear66
Well-known member
It's possibly the graph below that leads to the "2000" comment. Life expectancy has increased over 150 years. In 1940 they could have said it's only as bad as 1930 was so why is everyone worried about a war killing people. They didn't.
Laughing
Well-known member
I watched 20 minutes of that, and it is interesting that he talks about bias, his analysis shows a lot of bias. I could put together a slideshow that definitively shows that lockdowns do work.
He is right about a couple of things, the years lost is true, but why is that relevant? Also the lack of vitamin D and treatments, trained staff and hospital capacity.
No one would argue that lock downs kick the can down the road and has little long term effect. However, increasing hospital capacity isn't something the government is interested in and I can categorically prove that lockdowns slow transmission. Yes, without a vaccine they don't really work long term, that's not science it's common sense.
He is right about a couple of things, the years lost is true, but why is that relevant? Also the lack of vitamin D and treatments, trained staff and hospital capacity.
No one would argue that lock downs kick the can down the road and has little long term effect. However, increasing hospital capacity isn't something the government is interested in and I can categorically prove that lockdowns slow transmission. Yes, without a vaccine they don't really work long term, that's not science it's common sense.
bear66
Well-known member
Vitamin D supplements was advised for elderly / care home residents about 6 years ago. Many (the majority?) don't give them because care workers don't know if they're food or medicine and are wary to get into trouble.
Laughing
Well-known member
That could easily be addressed though Bear, were there a well thought out covid strategy. My wife and I started taking supplements early last year and I would advise everyone to do the same, unless you are working outdoors or eat a shed load of oily fish.
It's cheap and what harm can it do.
On another note, there is a proliferation of people broadcasting opinion, with some supporting evidence, as facts. Quite dangerous in my opinion. If positive cases don't start to drop off this week, I may revisit my opinion, but so far, in 2 previous lockdowns cases have started to decline in-line with lockdowns. That youtube clip is utter drivel, in my opinion and dangerous to boot.
bear66
Well-known member
It should have been but hasn't even though this has been known throughout.
newusername
Well-known member
Death rate has been declining year on year since the end of WWII, it makes sense to compare this year with the average of the previous 5 as you would expect them to be most alike & allow you to discover variations.
As you say we've had 20 years of improvements in health & life expectancy wiped out based on c.6 months (Apr-Jul, Oct-Dec) of increased deaths due to Covid.
FabioPorkpie
Well-known member
I started listening to this guy some months ago when I started looking at the alternative view of the pandemic (which turns out, was complete utter horse**** of the highest magnitude).
I quickly filed him in the same nonsense bin as Yeadon, Gupta, Craig and Heneghan.
He has been saying for many months that we had reached herd immunity, the pandemic is over and of no concern and we can go back to normal life now. He’s a hugely self publicising (‘please repost my video to as many as you can, it’s very important!’) man with no expertise in the field. He’s a chemical engineer/dietician salesman. But he does have a growing following of scared people looking for an alternative to the grim reality of covid.
Ultimately, he repeatedly said all this was over months and months ago. So you can draw your own conclusions as to his validity from there.
Alvez_48
Well-known member
Death rate hasn't been declining long term it's been inching up with a larger population.
The key word in all of this is 'increase'.
If you look at the amount of deaths and compare over 20 years I believe but do prove me wrong that 2020 looks to be sitting mid table.
It would be interesting if we were allowed a look at the deaths attributed to lockdown through lack of access to care, poverty and suicides.
Unfortunately these are difficult to assess. Before anyone says that these things are happening due to covid that's simply untrue, from May onwards we should have turned the taps on NHS very quickly and in hindsight we should have relaxed restrictions far more quickly. To suggest we'd be in a worse position now is simply untenable.
newusername
Well-known member
Not quite...
The number of deaths can rise year on year but if the population grows by a larger proportion, the death rate will fall.
Alvez_48
Well-known member
Yes makes sense... So even more so the fact that compared to the last 20 years (even with an increasing population) 2020 is in the middle of the road in terms of overall mortality shows the article to be misleading. Biggest 'increase' without doubt.
Largest amount ? No.
Bit like you cherry picking my comment.
idiot clocks off the USA have lost more to Covid than they did to Hitler and Emp Hirohito in WW2.
bear66
Well-known member
MolteniArcore
Well-known member
Yes makes sense... So even more so the fact that compared to the last 20 years (even with an increasing population) 2020 is in the middle of the road in terms of overall mortality shows the article to be misleading. Biggest 'increase' without doubt.
Largest amount ? No.
Bit like you cherry picking my comment.
So you are saying there hasn't been any excess deaths more than normal?
It's good to see that your stance has changed, good for you
