Woman who lied about grooming gang guilty of perverting course of justice

Very difficult to calculate the real cost and that is very rarely done as most defendants have no real prospect of paying.

Any costs claimed/awarded are in reality notional to the real cost of bringing a case.
 
FatCat said:
it must be sickening to be unjustly accused of rape - as mentioned it ruins lives. My mate lives in barrow and to this day he said there is a fair amount of support for her. With car stickers and posters about town with the slogan justice for Ellie!! For me this crime should be given the same as what an actual rapist would get plus 50per cent.
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That's a terrible idea. The main point being no one was raped. She should serve a jail sentence in my opinion but not based on the crime she falsly accused someone off. Take that to the extreme for someone accused of murder. Should the accuser, assuming they are lying do life? Or course not.

Justice has to be dispassionate otherwise its just revenge
 
Whilst
BlindBoyGrunt said:
She seems a very troubled young lady and probably needs treatment for mental health problems more than she needs a lengthy jail sentence.
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Whilst I agree with you pretty much. She has done similar things in the past, false accusations etc, she is also a danger to herself. She needs keeping out of society for a good while be it in prison or a secure hospital.
 
Pembroke said:
Most people who make false sexual allegations are people with disabilities and those with mental health problems.
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8 out of 10 stats are made up, including this one. Unless of course you have a link to the stats.

There is of course mitigation for people with mental health problems or disabilities in the criminal justice system across all offences so I don’t think you have a valid point, even if you are correct about the stats, which your not.
 
Jonny Ingbar said:
Allegations of rape, and other aexual offences, are almost in a category of their own due to the fact that consent is often so difficult to establish and that there are rarely any witnesses to the act itself.

But in this case the 'victim' has been proven to have lied, which makes it even more difficult for genuine victims to find the courage to come forward.

That, plus the fact that she has interfered with the basic principles that our criminal justice system rely upon, will see her serve a prison sentence, I'm sure of that.

All said though, I don't agree that false allegations of rape should be treated any differently to other malicious allegations - it's an unnecessary complication.

The whole agenda around rape is volatile; its very difficult to prove and victims always end up being attacked in court, but the cps are under huge pressure from government to improve conviction rates.

It all adds up to a very messy landscape where true justice is very rarely served.
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That’s why I think there should be a hard punishment for lying about it. It’s the worst thing you can lie about and get away with.

You have an idea of how many reports come through that are lies at worst and haven’t happened as reported at best. The problem is that once crimed they go against the failed conviction rates which in turn puts more pressure on the system.
 
Facefuzz said:
8 out of 10 stats are made up, including this one. Unless of course you have a link to the stats.

There is of course mitigation for people with mental health problems or disabilities in the criminal justice system across all offences so I don’t think you have a valid point, even if you are correct about the stats, which your not.
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You will want to look at the work of Tizzard etc.

You posted - Lie about rape. Get a similar sentence as rape.

I support individuals who have been sexually abused, but also support individuals who have made serial false sexual allegations about staff. I have been the target of false abuse allegations. This unfortunately is part of the job we have to expect these challenges, and we have to respond evenly to what we know will occur, and has to. I could not support the prosecution of people who have mental health problems, and do not have the mental capacity to understand their actions.
 
Pembroke said:
You will want to look at the work of Tizzard etc.

You posted - Lie about rape. Get a similar sentence as rape.

I support individuals who have been sexually abused, but also support individuals who have made serial false sexual allegations about staff. I have been the target of false abuse allegations. This unfortunately is part of the job we have to expect these challenges, and we have to respond evenly to what we know will occur, and has to. I could not support the prosecution of people who have mental health problems, and do not have the mental capacity to understand their actions.
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How do you feel about the man who had his life turned upside down by her lies?
Does he deserve any support?
I think there has to be some sort of deterrent to doing what she did - she can still get mental health support while serving any sentence handed to her
 
TeessideCleveland said:
How do you feel about the man who had his life turned upside down by her lies?
Does he deserve any support?
I think there has to be some sort of deterrent to doing what she did - she can still get mental health support while serving any sentence handed to her
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Pity, empathy, concern. The individual should be supported.

Do you think a individual who makes a allegation of rape, which is untrue should receive a similar sentence to an act where a man degrades and penetrates another person’s body, against their will frequntly involving abduction and violence causing severe psychological and physical damage? Its the same?
 
Pembroke said:
Pity, empathy, concern. The individual should be supported.

Do you think a individual who makes a allegation of rape, which is untrue should receive a similar sentence to an act where a man degrades and penetrates another person’s body, against their will frequntly involving abduction and violence causing severe psychological and physical damage? Its the same?
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I haven't made comments remotely like that. I was talking about this case, and feel the victim in this case is deserving of empathy
Of course rapists should be imprisoned
This is not a case about a rape that happened. It is a case about a false accusation of rape that the false accuser went to great lengths to back up - and the consequences of it
 
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Imagine if she ever tragically got raped in the future. Not even her family would believe her!
 
TeessideCleveland said:
I haven't made comments remotely like that. I was talking about this case, and feel the victim in this case deserving empathy
Of course rapists should be imprisoned
This is not a case about a rape that happened. It is a case about a false accusation of rape that the false accuser went to great lengths to back up - and the consequences of it
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The posters point was a individual making a false accusation of rape should receive a sentence similar to that of rape - Lie about rape. Get a similar sentence as rape.

I have been involved in services where false sexual accusations have been made, and the accusers keep up the pretence for months and years. The individuals are ill, and lack comprehension and decision making skills.

Malicious accusations are made by those who do have capacity, and they are generally experiencing mental health challenges. There are always pathologic symptoms to behaviours, but these behaviours have to be deemed differently to rapists, and sexual offenders = Societies reactions cannot view the actions of those making sexual allegations as the same as those who commit rape
 
fassy said:
Imagine if she ever tragically got raped in the future. Not even her family would believe her!
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For any sexual allegation its a duty to take the allegation seriously, regardless of the individual making false allegation before. Its point one in safeguarding procedures for any service that deals with abuse.
 
Pembroke said:
You will want to look at the work of Tizzard etc.

You posted - Lie about rape. Get a similar sentence as rape.

I support individuals who have been sexually abused, but also support individuals who have made serial false sexual allegations about staff. I have been the target of false abuse allegations. This unfortunately is part of the job we have to expect these challenges, and we have to respond evenly to what we know will occur, and has to. I could not support the prosecution of people who have mental health problems, and do not have the mental capacity to understand their actions.
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Good comeback mate.

What I should have written was that the law should be changed to allow for harsher sentencing powers ie if you lie about the crime then the maximum sentence could be the same as that of the crime you lied about.
I would not want to prosecute people with serious mental health problems.
 
What I get from this is leave it to the police no matter how difficult that is.
If I ever found that someone I love was a victim of such an awful thing I would find it very hard to not take the matter into my own hands and get some kind of revenge.
But thats really not the answer is it.
 
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