Wilder sacked

Not had chance to read the thread (will read through later), but this sacking is a bad idea.

I don't see what we have gained by sacking him, unless we already know we're going to get someone better. But who would come here when we've had 6 managers (Agnew, Monk, Pulis, Woody, Warnock, Wilder) since March 17 (effectively 5.5 seasons)? They would have to have a screw lose.

I think the problem is upstairs and recruitment, we have wrecked so many players (especially forwards) and managers it's beyond belief.

It's like we lie to these managers, promise them the funds, and their choice on players, to get them on board, selling them a fake dream. Then we don't get the players who the managers want, sell the ones who they want to keep, and then blame the manager when he can't get the results he was hoping to (based on the assumed better players/ recruitment).

We saw what Wilder could do, when he turned the team around last year, but we then got found out (only creativity was Jones), and then didn't strengthen the right areas so we had more options and become less predictable. Yes, we got Giles and Muniz (both great), but we were already weak in centre midfield, but then made it much, much, much weaker letting Tav go (the only prem class player we had last year, or this year), and not getting worthy players in.

Yes, a new manager might get some better results, but only if the individuals stop making errors, but then if they did that, Wilder would have had more points, he would have got more points too. We're extremely restricted by our centre midfield, that's the priority, not the manager.

The only sense in a change I can see, is maybe if the players lost confidence, or something happened behind the scenes, we might get a new manager bounce for a few games (albeit I doubt Leo would do better than Wilder before that happens). No matter what we are still going to be kneecapped by our poor permanent player recruitment, and the new manager will be pulling his hair out when we don't get some good centre mids in Jan (or next summer) and then we'll have to replace Giles and Muniz too, as we won't have or spend the cash to buy either of them.

Very much looking forward to what Wilder has to see when he gets interviewed in the future, but expect he'll keep quiet until we get the new guy in. We'll get his side, without having to tread lightly, in a few months I expect.

At least we have some money to pay his contract off, since we certainly didn't invest what we recouped last summer.
I suspect there's more to it than bad results. It's unlike Gibson to chop so quickly he gives loyalty but also demands it. I reckon Wilder has been it and there's some truth in the rumours.
 
Lumping up to Muniz is a waste of time against two centre backs, or with no-one near him. Wilder wasn't asking them to make mistakes either, as Warnock wasn't, nobody would.

Well Wilder has had the players lumping it at Muniz since the Sunderland match. Our passes per game has fallen off a cliff edge recently.

Agree no manager wants their team to make mistakes but equally you can't seriously have a gameplan that relies on nobody making any mistakes for 90 mins. The players are human. There will be moments when they pick the wrong pass or make the wrong run and we give the ball away. That can't always lead to us conceding a goal.
 
Wilder looked a very good choice as manager - previous record was good & had Sheff UTD, IMHO playing some excellent football - what could go wrong.. turns out too much about the 'system & style' over pragmatic balanced football that suited the players available to him..

Maybe modern managers have bought into the Pep syndrome: have a style & stick to it regardless of the players at your disposal, possession above everything.

Vast majority of managers are only a bad run away from the sack. Whoever comes in I'll give a chance & hope they do well.. at least have us playing to win..
 
With hindsight him wanting a specific type of player and our history with buying the correct player it was probably never going to work.

He may of got lucky with the sheff United players at his disposal it maybe just clicked. His inability to work with what he had was his downfall.

Nobody comes out of this smelling of roses. From the chairman to scouting to the manager. All a bit of a mess.

We must get it right this time or it could be disastrous.
 
I think we have a decent squad. Its not up to Norwich or Burnley or Shef Utd but it's still should challenging fro the play-offs.
And that's the responsibility of the Manager.... it's as simple as that.
 
Edwards 1-5 on now.....
Like with Wilder being linked with Burnley and Bournemouth, can we take much notice of the odds? I think Wilder was as short as this, certainly for the Burnley job.

I just can’t believe that Edwards is the best we can come up with. Or is he just the cheap option who Gibbo and co will hope will be a yes man and not question anything like recruitment?
 
Like with Wilder being linked with Burnley and Bournemouth, can we take much notice of the odds? I think Wilder was as short as this, certainly for the Burnley job.

I just can’t believe that Edwards is the best we can come up with. Or is he just the cheap option who Gibbo and co will hope will be a yes man and not question anything like recruitment?
Or maybe that's why we got rid because Edwards was available and we want him. he's worked with Scott before and will possibly suit us more than the previous manager.

Every appointment is a risk its what suits us at this point in time. Theres no.point getting a top drawer manager that won't work within the constraints or future plan for the club.
 
Well Wilder has had the players lumping it at Muniz since the Sunderland match. Our passes per game has fallen off a cliff edge recently.

Agree no manager wants their team to make mistakes but equally you can't seriously have a gameplan that relies on nobody making any mistakes for 90 mins. The players are human. There will be moments when they pick the wrong pass or make the wrong run and we give the ball away. That can't always lead to us conceding a goal.
I don't think it was him telling them to do that, it was them just doing that, I think it was the players. We weren't doing it so much with Lenihan and Steffen playing.

He might have said take less risk if you don't feel comfortable, but it's down to the players to be good enough to feel comfortable.

Of course, mistakes are a certainty, but you would expect these supposed good players like McNair, Fry and Howson not to be making so many/. They weren't last year. Watmore's made loads up front, as have others missing more chances than they should (other than Muniz) but Chuba's been injured and Wilder didn't want the other two.

I thought it was weird how he highlighted Dijksteele as the one who made the error on Sat, he should never have had to be in that position to cover over that side. Where the hell was Clarke and Bola? Why were they so high when we played the wingbacks so we could be more defensive, not attacking? It should have been Fry's man before it was Dijksteele's but Fry was half asleep and barely even tried to run back.

If Fry was concerned about Gyokeres pace, he should have held that line further back, not on the halfway line when their guy had the ball for about 5 seconds before putting Gyokeres through.

Total leadership/ organisational error, and players trying to pass the buck.

We should have bought a LCB with pace, as can't have Fry and Clarke side by side in a team which wants to attack, especially with wing backs so high, it just leaves too much space. Fry's not commanding/ organising well enough to limit the threat of their slow pace.

We've got a recruitment team which may understand players and value but it's completely worthless if those players have the wrong attributes for what style the manager wants to play.

Every time we change manager or who is recruiting it's like starting from scratch, we need three years of continuity to get the squad on the same page.

Wilder could maybe have switched styles, but I don't see how:

Since we sold Tav, I can't see how we can play without having three centre mids, so that's pretty much restricting us to three in there, and as the defence is slow we possibly have to go to four at the back, to not leave so many gaps in the channels. I think we could be on a one-way ticket to playing 4-5-1 (or some variant of that) until we sort the recruitment out. But that would still mean Forss and Hoppe won't play, did the recruitment realise this? Lump ball won't work in 4-5-1 either, and we would create less, and thus score less.

We could maybe play 4-3-3 and use Jones and Giles as high wingers, but it would leave them less space to run into like they get from playing as wing-backs, and they wouldn't get as many goals as wide forwards. Also bit of a ballsy call going 4-3-3 when we're leaking so many daft goals.

Be interesting to see how we change things up.
 
I don't think it was him telling them to do that, it was them just doing that, I think it was the players. We weren't doing it so much with Lenihan and Steffen playing.

He might have said take less risk if you don't feel comfortable, but it's down to the players to be good enough to feel comfortable.

Of course, mistakes are a certainty, but you would expect these supposed good players like McNair, Fry and Howson not to be making so many/. They weren't last year. Watmore's made loads up front, as have others missing more chances than they should (other than Muniz) but Chuba's been injured and Wilder didn't want the other two.

I thought it was weird how he highlighted Dijksteele as the one who made the error on Sat, he should never have had to be in that position to cover over that side. Where the hell was Clarke and Bola? Why were they so high when we played the wingbacks so we could be more defensive, not attacking? It should have been Fry's man before it was Dijksteele's but Fry was half asleep and barely even tried to run back.

If Fry was concerned about Gyokeres pace, he should have held that line further back, not on the halfway line when their guy had the ball for about 5 seconds before putting Gyokeres through.

Total leadership/ organisational error, and players trying to pass the buck.

We should have bought a LCB with pace, as can't have Fry and Clarke side by side in a team which wants to attack, especially with wing backs so high, it just leaves too much space. Fry's not commanding/ organising well enough to limit the threat of their slow pace.

We've got a recruitment team which may understand players and value but it's completely worthless if those players have the wrong attributes for what style the manager wants to play.

Every time we change manager or who is recruiting it's like starting from scratch, we need three years of continuity to get the squad on the same page.

Wilder could maybe have switched styles, but I don't see how:

Since we sold Tav, I can't see how we can play without having three centre mids, so that's pretty much restricting us to three in there, and as the defence is slow we possibly have to go to four at the back, to not leave so many gaps in the channels. I think we could be on a one-way ticket to playing 4-5-1 (or some variant of that) until we sort the recruitment out. But that would still mean Forss and Hoppe won't play, did the recruitment realise this? Lump ball won't work in 4-5-1 either, and we would create less, and thus score less.

We could maybe play 4-3-3 and use Jones and Giles as high wingers, but it would leave them less space to run into like they get from playing as wing-backs, and they wouldn't get as many goals as wide forwards. Also bit of a ballsy call going 4-3-3 when we're leaking so many daft goals.

Be interesting to see how we change things up.
The goal on Saturday was laughable. Drag Clarke up the pitch, ping it in the space behind him and score.

Re: the defensive line, I think this probably was Fry playing to instruction. Wilder has always favoured this approach although admittedly players should have the intelligence to react to on-pitch situations.

The big issue for me in playing a high line with this squad is that we haven't got the legs in midfield and defence to win the ball back quickly, putting the deepest defenders under immense pressure.

Time and time again this season we've been caught up by opposition turning over the ball a long way from our goal and within a couple of passes they're clean through. Our pressing has a lot to answer for.

It's one of the reasons I'm cooling on Corberan - he played an even riskier press at Huddersfield (albeit with a young squad full of pace and energy) - if we tried that we'd get battered every week.
 
The goal on Saturday was laughable. Drag Clarke up the pitch, ping it in the space behind him and score.

Re: the defensive line, I think this probably was Fry playing to instruction. Wilder has always favoured this approach although admittedly players should have the intelligence to react to on-pitch situations.

The big issue for me in playing a high line with this squad is that we haven't got the legs in midfield and defence to win the ball back quickly, putting the deepest defenders under immense pressure.

Time and time again this season we've been caught up by opposition turning over the ball a long way from our goal and within a couple of passes they're clean through. Our pressing has a lot to answer for.

It's one of the reasons I'm cooling on Corberan - he played an even riskier press at Huddersfield (albeit with a young squad full of pace and energy) - if we tried that we'd get battered every week.
Agree with this. We don’t need defenders bombing up the pitch (overlapping or whatever nonsense it was) as we don’t have the players to do it. Clarke being the prime example, who is no doubt a good defender at this level, but not a centre back who will get forward and run with the ball, despite his debut.

We have to play to our strengths. It’s crazy not to.
 
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Agree with this. We don’t need defenders binning up the pitch (overlapping or whatever nonsense it was) as we don’t have the players to do it. Clarke being the prime example, who is no doubt a good defender at this level, but not a centre back who will get forward, despite his debut.

We have to play to our strengths. It’s crazy not to.
I think the current issue being, what are our strengths.

We could look to play on the counter using Giles, Jones, Muniz, Forss? Mowatt would be a big part of that for me - a player who can pick a pass and do literally nothing else. :)
 
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