Why has M&S struggled in the last 20 years?

I like M and S food and their clothing, I probably buy more of both from there than anywhere else.

That’s a good point about going out; perhaps it’s no longer the “event” that it once was. I have often said to Mrs. Foggy that people are allowed in restaurants in any old tat nowadays; football shirts, shorts, trainers, flip flops. They wouldn’t get into my restaurant dressed like that. To me it’s still an occasion and We both always go to lunch or dinner dressed smartly.
 
I started using M&S to buy clothing in my 40s, now in my 60s and have started in the last few years to move away from them.

They have some decent clothing still but in a size range not suitable for most in my age group, a much smaller range available to fit me.

I still stuck with them until fairly recently with regards to tee shirts but even their quality has gone down of late.

They should get back to catering for their market. They're wasting money on stock they'll never shift.

If they're going to cater for the throwaway generation they'll have to compete with Primark, they have no chance of that.
 
‘They should get back to catering for their market’

That’s the problem - if it exists at all, it is in such small numbers that they’d never be able to make a business model that works.

Arrogance which started with Stuart Rose has meant they were far to slow to react.
It’s too late
 
‘They should get back to catering for their market’

That’s the problem - if it exists at all, it is in such small numbers that they’d never be able to make a business model that works.

Arrogance which started with Stuart Rose has meant they were far to slow to react.
It’s too late

Yep, you are right about Stuart Rose. He was the first to start abandoning the company's core values. They haven't quite got their message out to reasonably affluent middle class, middle aged men that the menswear dept is aimed at them, so what you get is blokes in their seventies looking at the italian brushed cotton skinny fit trousers and jeans with a look of bemusement. The clothes are actually pretty good.
 
Fruit is by far the best Ive tasted, for some unknown reason it always tastes really fresh and never ever bitter.
Some the food is OK, the clobber is something I wouldnt bother with, like a Skoda to me it will always be a Skoda.
 
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Yep, you are right about Stuart Rose. He was the first to start abandoning the company's core values. They haven't quite got their message out to reasonably affluent middle class, middle aged men that the menswear dept is aimed at them, so what you get is blokes in their seventies looking at the italian brushed cotton skinny fit trousers and jeans with a look of bemusement. The clothes are actually pretty good.

I nearly joined them after Rose had left but didn’t see much to get excited about.
About 3 years ago I was in line for another job with a different company and the final ’chat’ was with their new chairman - it was Stuart Rose.
I had 30 mins of him telling me how good he was before he said to the CEO - ‘I think you have got your man’.
I turned the job down.
 
Stuart Rose is an extremely arrogant man, but the awful appointment was Marc Bolland who was a disaster for M&S. They obsessed over high street and their famed unmatchable high street covenants. Only any good if shoppers are still going there. A bit of a problem if they're not. Rose might have been asleep at the wheel towards the end, but Bolland was driving on the wrong side of the road.
Bolland focused everything on non food with a plethora of inappropriate brands and sub brands that confused.
He focused on international expansion, while limiting the expansion of Simply Food and dismissing Online as he had done at Morrisons before that. The bloke was a disaster.
So the competitive advantage and opportunity they had was food and he prioritised away.
The need to invest in UK online and supply chain just to play catch up was obvious, yet he didn't, until too little too late and they had horrendous problems with supply chain and execution.

The man they should have empowered was Roger Whiteside who set up Simply Food and co-started Ocado. He ran Food for them.
He left on not getting the top job, did well at Punch for their shareholders and personally got out right at the right time.
What he has done at Greggs is absolutely brilliant. He's a tough man but outstanding.

M&S Food is excellent and is generally significantly superior. In my opinion it is worth the premium. We would buy lots more and more regularly if it wasn't so inconvenient. The Ocado link up is smart.
The only advantage Waitrose has is it is full service Grocery and you can get strong brands too.
I'd never shop at Waitrose full service, I'd get the good stuff always at Marks' and everyday stuff where it was cheapest and most convenient.

Store location for the Food offering will be key and managed in conjunction with Ocado expansion.
I'm optimistic for them with Food, because nobody touches them in terms of major stores.

The Clothes and Home ranges have just lost relevance. It will take some getting back, but without the margin that comes from their clothes they can't justify the size of store, hence the re-positioning.
Their buying has been pitiful, regularly seeing them advertise product on TV for weeks that is available in store for days because they've got their buying and stock holding wrong. Whilst the need for massive sales rises when they get things badly wrong like deciding old men should all wear skinny jeans.
Their Gross margin % on Non Food is still much much higher that on their Food and they now do twice the business on Food from a fraction of the floorspace, (but with higher labour costs, in part because of a poor supply chain).
They have to do really well on Food to counter the Non Food decline. That makes Bolland's lethargy on Food and Simply Food all the more stupid.
They've done well with Food, but cautiously, rather than triumphantly as they could have.
Steve Rowe isn't in Roger Whiteside's league. Wrong guy.
 
Either sell food or sell clothes.
Waitrose has taken their business food wise. In terms of clothing their customers are getting old and dying and they can't get new ones due to their image. I doubt anyone under the age of 40 has ever bought any clothing from m&s beyond pants and socks.
 
Either sell food or sell clothes.
Waitrose has taken their business food wise. In terms of clothing their customers are getting old and dying and they can't get new ones due to their image. I doubt anyone under the age of 40 has ever bought any clothing from m&s beyond pants and socks.
Except Waitrose haven't taken M&S Food business.
 
A lot of interesting points - can't agree with low priced food - they do some fruit at 65p called Market Trader which is cheap say for bag of small apples, but say their quiches are £2.50 while Lidl is £1.45 for the same size.

I disagree about Redcar store the clothes bit was always busy when I was there - I used to buy about a third my clothes in that store - all heavily discounted but undamaged. I go in to buy one item and come out with 5 or 6. Some stuff was 75% off and under cut Primark - A decision was made in 2014 to get rid of many of the smaller seaside stores so Redcar and Great Yarmouth went and about 10 others. They also said they were winding down outlet stores because they had got much better at planning sales (wow just seen a flying pig). They saw the future as retail parks say the one at Guisborough which is much less busy than the Redcar one.
 
A lot of interesting points - can't agree with low priced food - they do some fruit at 65p called Market Trader which is cheap say for bag of small apples, but say their quiches are £2.50 while Lidl is £1.45 for the same size.

I disagree about Redcar store the clothes bit was always busy when I was there - I used to buy about a third my clothes in that store - all heavily discounted but undamaged. I go in to buy one item and come out with 5 or 6. Some stuff was 75% off and under cut Primark - A decision was made in 2014 to get rid of many of the smaller seaside stores so Redcar and Great Yarmouth went and about 10 others. They also said they were winding down outlet stores because they had got much better at planning sales (wow just seen a flying pig). They saw the future as retail parks say the one at Guisborough which is much less busy than the Redcar one.

If aimed at me Redwurzel, then I certainly don't say M&S Food is cheap. I think it is best and provides good value by virtue of its quality.
Aldi and Lidl do what they do very well.
 
Yep, you are right about Stuart Rose. He was the first to start abandoning the company's core values. They haven't quite got their message out to reasonably affluent middle class, middle aged men that the menswear dept is aimed at them, so what you get is blokes in their seventies looking at the italian brushed cotton skinny fit trousers and jeans with a look of bemusement. The clothes are actually pretty good.

They are, but don't fit reasonably affluent middle aged men. There's lots of choice if you're looking for skinny/slim fit, few of us are, and for us the choices are of a poorer design/quality. They haven't always been.
 
I worked at the M and S at Teesside park at Christmas when I was a student. That store made a lot on food(was something like second highest in the area after Metro centre) but lost on clothing. They expanded the food section as it was propping the rest of the store up.

Wouldnt be surprised to see some of their stores become food only.
 
I buy my socks and undies there and work shirts - the work shirts are good on quality and price. Bought my last couple of works suits there too but cant see myself getting many more as we've now gone more casual since the lock down.

the rest of the clothing though is aimed at the over 60's or hipsters who want to dress like granddad

the food is good but not as good as waitrose and too expensive in comparison to tesco - as above the lunchtime stuff, sandwiches etc are excellent, but you cant do a proper shop there
 
A lot of interesting points - can't agree with low priced food - they do some fruit at 65p called Market Trader which is cheap say for bag of small apples, but say their quiches are £2.50 while Lidl is £1.45 for the same size.

I disagree about Redcar store the clothes bit was always busy when I was there - I used to buy about a third my clothes in that store - all heavily discounted but undamaged. I go in to buy one item and come out with 5 or 6. Some stuff was 75% off and under cut Primark - A decision was made in 2014 to get rid of many of the smaller seaside stores so Redcar and Great Yarmouth went and about 10 others. They also said they were winding down outlet stores because they had got much better at planning sales (wow just seen a flying pig). They saw the future as retail parks say the one at Guisborough which is much less busy than the Redcar one.

In its heyday my old mum couldn’t walk through Redcar m and s without buying yet another frock!
 
Their food side continues to do well. It's the clothing that struggles and to me it's obvious why; the vast majority of people want cheap, disposable clothing which they wear for one season then throw away, that's why they go to cheap Primark.
A lot of my clothes are over 5 or maybe 10 years old. I hate buying clothes. When I get them home they always look stupid and I resort back to my favourites.
Cant remember last time i threw a shirt away or underpants
 
Indeedidio - I primarily had these words in my head when I compared a specific price on quiches (a big item for M&S) - "Sounds like a few of you haven’t shopped in a food store for some time. Prices are very competitive these days whilst their range and quality is pretty good." It was iFinny's words. Its hard to be competitive when you charge 72.4% more and it was their ordinary M&S quiche not their premium one.

M&S in general have always charged more for Food that the average, but it appears to me the difference is getting bigger rather than less hence some loss of market share of an area they always did well in. I do still like going in M&S, but very much more cherry pick using Sparks Card discounts or buying yellow sticker items. If M&S was very competitive they would be gaining not losing food market share.
 
Indeedidio - I primarily had these words in my head when I compared a specific price on quiches (a big item for M&S) - "Sounds like a few of you haven’t shopped in a food store for some time. Prices are very competitive these days whilst their range and quality is pretty good." It was iFinny's words. Its hard to be competitive when you charge 72.4% more and it was their ordinary M&S quiche not their premium one.

M&S in general have always charged more for Food that the average, but it appears to me the difference is getting bigger rather than less hence some loss of market share of an area they always did well in. I do still like going in M&S, but very much more cherry pick using Sparks Card discounts or buying yellow sticker items. If M&S was very competitive they would be gaining not losing food market share.


Food shopping is very personal and emotional.
One of the issues with price is it means different things to different people.
It is a matter of fact that in general their prices have become more competitive - particularly on fruit and veg which, in a food store, is very much seen as key.

They are bound to have some items more expensive than other retailers - everyone plays around trying to get some margin back on ‘premium’ products.
I get complaints all the time about some of my prices v the big 4. At any one time I’m cheaper than the big 4 on a selection of products too.
Then is becomes ‘personal’ about whether the premium is worth it. And, your experience is you are not getting good value.
Regarding comparison with Waitrose quality - again personal.

Market share data shows M+S growing and Waitrose losing out. Something is working for M+S food.

The market however shows M+S taking market share and Waitrose losing.
 
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