Why has M&S struggled in the last 20 years?

Redwurzel

Redwurzel

Well-known member
A BBC article suggested old store layouts, modelling clothes aimed at 65 year olds with 25 year olds, poor loyalty card, late into online shopping, not speaking to customers, not having target customers.

All those points have some truth, but to me they have missed some key points:

Manufacturing quality of their clothes are poorer, but their prices are still quite high.

When M&S used British suppliers you felt you were buying clothes that were durable and made in a ethical way, now they seem to using similar suppliers to Primark. Food as well they used top quality British suppliers, now they use the same as the other supermarkets, but expect customers to pay premium prices.

Their food offering is generally expensive, it was never cheap, but I feel its become more expensive relative to its competitors.

Its overheads are too high - its selling food from prime sites on the high street, seem to be a lot of staff especially in head office, but also in the stores. What annoying in my store is that there are a lot of staff, but they only open 1 or 2 food service tills, expecting 90% of customers to use the unmanned tills.

Men's office wear was a big sales area such as suits. not as many people wear suits now.

I used to enjoy picking up bargains at their Outlet Stores which they shut down. The one at Redcar was always busy. That store must have made a profit, but it was shut.

The spread of Waitrose has affected M&S sales in mid income locations there is not enough room for both.
 
They must have made their money on food but I guess that's not sustainable. It's true about the clothes. They must think everyone in the country is over 60!
 
Quite the opposite, Redcar was shut because they thought people in Redcar were poor and would accept ’seconds’ when quite clearly they wouldn't’. My mother said in the end people only went in for the food and the selection for that went downhill.
 
Their clothing image has for years been far too bland and conservative. That said with shirts,suits and ties sales dropping off a cliff they are in the same boat as many clothing retailers.
 
they tried to close the linthorpe road shop but had just signed a new lease on the building and it is cheaper to run the lease out rather than close. only reason why that one is still open
 
Their food is decent but it is over-priced. The majority of it is ready meals. Their meat and produce is no better than the stuff in cheaper supermarkets so why pay the mark-up. Also, they are usually in the most expensive locations in Town Centres which is awful value for money and inconvenient to do a proper shop. As mentioned above, the clothing is for old people, some of the plain work stuff is decent but people want something a bit fancier these days so will go to a more fashionable shop. Their home stuff again is decent but over-priced.

Retail in general struggles with a high street presence because the overheads are just far too high to be competitive. The more businesses close down the lower the footfall. M&S going will kill off a load of other stores because people do still go to town to go there so without the focal point it will decimate a lot of smaller town centres. They will move to retail parks where rates are lower and they can capture shoppers from multiple towns at once.

We've been talking about the M&S decline for years though and it is still fairly strong. It just needs to evolve a bit.
 
Their food side continues to do well. It's the clothing that struggles and to me it's obvious why; the vast majority of people want cheap, disposable clothing which they wear for one season then throw away, that's why they go to cheap Primark.
 
M&S do some great clothes. Blazers, shirts (casual & formal), knitwear Etc is all quite good quality and often competitively priced.

Homeware often good quality but some stuff is expensive.

They just don’t have a lot of draw to a young market, they’re seen as old fashioned. The food is great. I disagree that it’s not better than supermarkets, we shop in both and often happy to buy the M&S stuff. I probably wouldn’t buy chicken breasts or basic stuff like that, and some things aren’t worth the extra but many are. A lot of their stuff is also organic / free range / ethical which is factored into the price.

They need to focus on online as well as reinvigorating the brand
 
If I want to buy organic and fresh vegetables I will always choose local. We have an excellent farm shop and an excellent outdoor food market. Just don’t need to buy at M &S
 
The majority of us are quite happy in jeans/shorts /chino /t shirts not many people really dress up even when going out for a meal.
I don't like primark because for a few pounds more you can get better stuff online.
M and S choux buns really are exceptional .
 
M&S food is often aimed at the single diner. For them it is better value than buying a larger portion at another supermarket.
Mens clothing always used to be cut more generous, so it was better for us larger gents. I havent found another shop that serves us well, although I dont buy clothes very often.
Womens clothing is not perceived to be fashionable and so most people dont enter the store because it is not for them.
 
Redwurzel said:
All those points have some truth, but to me they have missed some key points:



Its overheads are too high - its selling food from prime sites on the high street, seem to be a lot of staff especially in head office, but also in the stores. What annoying in my store is that there are a lot of staff, but they only open 1 or 2 food service tills, expecting 90% of customers to use the unmanned tills.
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Its overheads are too high because in the 1970s the management thought M&S was untouchable and there would always be a high street and a loyal customer base. So they signed some incredibly stupid deals to secure property at what they thought were advantageous rents. The store in Stockton is contracted on a 200 year lease that expires in 2170. Then the current management compounded the mistake by closing some of those stores, thinking that the landlords would want and be able to re-let the store to someone else. What incentive is there for a landlord to try to let a commercial property that nobody wants when you are going to get nearly 150 years of rent anyway? The management should have kept that store (and other similar stores) open, even if just to defray the losses.

So the retail operation is saddled with huge overhead costs to cover, even before they sell a pair of socks. And those circumstances don't make M&S a very interesting take over proposition either.
 
Sounds like a few of you haven’t shopped in a food store for some time. Prices are very competitive these days whilst their range and quality is pretty good. They have had a resurgence in the last 18 months (albeit after years of decline).
Should get stronger now with their tie up with Ocado.

Their failure in general has been about poor leadership for years. They maintained their ‘stuffy’ parochial style resulting in stifling initiative and ‘more of the same’.
Big shops selling clothing that few wanted.
In the meantime - Next, Zara et al came in. They were nimble, gave customers what they wanted and very good prices.
They have been on a downward spiral for years - all Covid has done has sped up the inevitable.
 
1finny said:
Sounds like a few of you haven’t shopped in a food store for some time. Prices are very competitive these days whilst their range and quality is pretty good. They have had a resurgence in the last 18 months (albeit after years of decline).
Should get stronger now with their tie up with Ocado.

Their failure in general has been about poor leadership for years. They maintained their ‘stuffy’ parochial style resulting in stifling initiative and ‘more of the same’.
Big shops selling clothing that few wanted.
In the meantime - Next, Zara et al came in. They were nimble, gave customers what they wanted and very good prices.
They have been on a downward spiral for years - all Covid has done has sped up the inevitable.
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(y)
 
The jeans, chinos and casual outdoors clothes are really good. Great shirts too, if you understand their variety of tailoring etc. Casual polo type shirts are goosd too. The undercrackers are the best (especially the microfibre and supersoft stuff). I never used to shop for clothes at M&S but, actually, I've been won over since the Missus started working for them and I had to be in the shop anyway. The fresh food is pretty much the same as anywhere else, but the ready meals, pizzas, bistro dishes etc are way better. Their biggest problem was leadership ... and a race to try to compete with Primark and the like, when they should have kept with quality assurance. They used to be a great employer, and looked after their staff. Since the race to the bottom, that has been eroded and many of the staff are just demoralised now. Previous CEO Marc Bolland was a disaster ... he was responsible for putting the company in the position it now finds itself.
 
Visiting the clothes section of an M&S is like walking into your local care home. The average age of the customer must be well over retirement age. Their main customer base are literally dying of old age.

Unless a young person is looking for a suit for a job interview, or a sensible but boring polo shirt, why would they shop in M&S?
 
I pass through the Metro Centre store a lot. They seem to think that women don't want comfortable clothes, but constantly want to look like a 25 year old office worker. That ain't the type of customer I see in there.

I like their shirts, trousers etc. for work but often go a few shops down to Next and pay an extra few quid because they have my size actually sat there on a clothes rail.

Stopped buying my kids their clothes from there as they'd often shrink on a 30° wash: I'll pay Primark prices if they're going to give me Primark quality, thanks.

Then there's the café. I can live with the slow queue, given the core demographic, but it really irks me to see one or two staff running about serving and unable to keep up with clearing tables while half a dozen managers sit for ages, taking up customer tables, doing paperwork during a busy period. That kind of stuff was always a first thing Tuesday morning job when I worked in a shop.
 
jeff_potato said:
I pass through the Metro Centre store a lot. They seem to think that women don't want comfortable clothes, but constantly want to look like a 25 year old office worker. That ain't the type of customer I see in there.

I like their shirts, trousers etc. for work but often go a few shops down to Next and pay an extra few quid because they have my size actually sat there on a clothes rail.

Stopped buying my kids their clothes from there as they'd often shrink on a 30° wash: I'll pay Primark prices if they're going to give me Primark quality, thanks.

Then there's the café. I can live with the slow queue, given the core demographic, but it really irks me to see one or two staff running about serving and unable to keep up with clearing tables while half a dozen managers sit for ages, taking up customer tables, doing paperwork during a busy period. That kind of stuff was always a first thing Tuesday morning job when I worked in a shop.
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The cafe does my head in. We always end up there with the in-laws because they are M&S devotees and have a billion vouchers for free cups of coffee. I made the mistake of asking for an espresso once. It came in a mug.
 
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