Who the f**** needs Europe. We have all we need here.

[boromike85]

No it isn't. Unless you mean that you welcome immigrants with money and reject those who are fleeing oppression and/or war and are penniless?

So, would you sink these poor fukkers in the channel or shoot them on the beaches?

It is this sort of deliberate misquoting that causes so many problems for people online. Read the whole thing. It is the rich people and the poor people already living in the country that are the winners and losers. We were talking impact of immigration, not the immigrants themselves.

Where have I ever said we should reject asylum seekers, never mind kill them? You do understand the difference between migrants and those seeking asylum don't you? If not then you need to educate yourself before we go any further. I wouldn't wish harm on anyone and I don't take too kindly to people insinuating that I condone violence, murder or racism so please refrain.



Nice to see we have gone over and above in remainer bingo. All the characters and all the slogans in one thread . Slogans which I have still only ever heard remainers use. Also good to see that not a single one has commented on the validity of the article in OP's post. It's ok to admit that a post or article has no substance even if it does fit your agenda, it doesn't make you a brexiteer.

 

[Michael_Vronsky]

'The impact of immigration'. Have you been inside an NHS ward recently? Thank God for immigration or the whole damn house would've crash down a LONG time ago.

And who picks the fruit? Who cleans the airports? It ain't a chav picking up his benefits and wailing about people coming over here and taking his job.

 

[Centralscrutinizer]

I was being ironic!!!!! I guess you didn't read previous posts and jumped on in.

Yes that's what I did by the looks of it. I'm normally good at spotting irony and sarcasm as well.

 

[Frozen Horse]

Dammit. Don't tell that to the Brexiteers!!

Brexiteers don't need food. Blue passports and bulldog spirit provide all the sustenance they require.

 

[Lefty]

Tariffs are applied by the importing country not the exporter.

This is the most important thing to remember. We can impose zero tariff's on imports from the EU if we want and we can decide to have lower H&S standards from the EU if we want.

The second most important thing to remember is, as Trade experts have been pointing out for FOUR years, that tariffs are not the only barrier to trade and not even the most important. Distance from the market is the biggest and red tape in terms of standards, sanitary and phytosanitary checks and paperwork are all bigger barriers than tariff's.

The third most important thing to remember is that in the absence of a Trade Deal the WTO Most Favoured Nation rule means that whatever entry barriers you waive/reduce for one country, be they tariff's or standards or just paperwork, applies to all. You can't just give the EU or USA tariff free access and put barriers in the way of a country that heavily subsidises (and thus might undercut a domestic producer) a product. You need a Trade Deal to do that sort of discrimination.

The fourth most important thing is to realise that it is UK exports that will be screwed. Our exports will be subject to tariff's, Rules Of Origin issues in supply chains, additional declarations and paperwork costs, leading to competitiveness issues and additional unnecessary costs. We tend to export high value stuff. Who is going to buy it? Do you think a Ugandan farmer can afford a British tractor?

 

[boromike85]

'The impact of immigration'. Have you been inside an NHS ward recently? Thank God for immigration or the whole damn house would've crash down a LONG time ago.

And who picks the fruit? Who cleans the airports? It ain't a chav picking up his benefits and wailing about people coming over here and taking his job.

Another poster only willing to read one line. We've already covered that. Controlled immigration in no ways stops immigration, it is just selective based on skills (such as nurses and doctors). Even then, I think it would be preferential to train our own instead of poaching other country's key workers. I recognise that isn't anything that can be solved quickly so we do need immigration.

I also forget that anything negative said about immigration is abhorrent but "lazy chavs" are a fair target. Why won't they pick fruit? Is it because they are lazy or because the job is terrible, pays a pittance and requires living onsite in a shipping container with 5 strangers (for a good portion of those wages). Shame on the "lazy chavs". I remember when Labour supported the workers but now they defend landowners right to exploit people instead and look down on the working classes instead.

This whole thread is a perfect microcosm of why there is such division between remainers and brexiteers. Snidey put downs, preposterous slogans and an outright refusal to debate in good faith. This will be my last post on the matter. Enjoy your echo chamber.

 

[Cooper671]

This is so true it’s hilarious.... it is exactly the same on any anti Tory thread too. One poster will always quote “still could have been Corbyn and Abbot eh”

Literally only ever mentioned by labour supports similar to the remainer quotes like blue passports etc

All the characters and all the slogans in one thread . Slogans which I have still only ever heard remainers use.

 

[HarryVegas]

This is so true it’s hilarious.... it is exactly the same on any anti Tory thread too. One poster will always quote “still could have been Corbyn and Abbot eh”

Literally only ever mentioned by labour supports similar to the remainer quotes like blue passports etc

Just a point here coops. The practice of saying "still, imagine how much worse things would have been under Corbyn and Abbott" is a well worn path carved out by conservative backing press and is still happening almost daily. So saying "literally only ever mentioned by labour supports (sic)" is factually untrue. You're welcome.

 

[Muttley]

Nice to see we have gone over and above in remainer bingo. All the characters and all the slogans in one thread . Slogans which I have still only ever heard remainers use. Also good to see that not a single one has commented on the validity of the article in OP's post. It's ok to admit that a post or article has no substance even if it does fit your agenda, it doesn't make you a brexiteer.

There is no "debate" to be done. The original article may or may not be complete garbage. It doesn't matter. I don't care, I didn't read it.

When you have a government that has failed every challenge it has faced, a Prime Minister that barely bothers turning up for weeks on end and ministers handing out billions of our taxes to their chums regardless or more accurately in spite of their proven incompetence, then someone comes along and tries to rationalise "uncontrolled immigration" as a problem. Well, it never was a problem. Despite the lies of the leave campaign and fascist playbook posters that Nigel stood in front of it wasn't a problem then and it isn't one now.

Ever since the corrupt referendum I have asked and asked for a tangible benefit to be gained by Brexit and all we got was "you lost get over it". We don't even get the "sunlit uplands" bon mots now we get "it might not be a complete disaster", "we will have enough to eat", "oranges from South Africa" and such as if that was some sort of triumph!

I am so over it I'm past caring. If you can't see that you have been lied to it is only yourself you are deluding.

Kiss that blue passport and cuddle up under your Union Jack bedspread, you've fukked the country, you've shat on the futures of our young people.

Own it.

 

[SmallTown]

Brexiteers don't need food. Blue passports and bulldog spirit provide all the sustenance they require.

Maybe they can eat immigrants?

 

[boromike85]

There is no "debate" to be done. The original article may or may not be complete garbage. It doesn't matter. I don't care, I didn't read it.

When you have a government that has failed every challenge it has faced, a Prime Minister that barely bothers turning up for weeks on end and ministers handing out billions of our taxes to their chums regardless or more accurately in spite of their proven incompetence, then someone comes along and tries to rationalise "uncontrolled immigration" as a problem. Well, it never was a problem. Despite the lies of the leave campaign and fascist playbook posters that Nigel stood in front of it wasn't a problem then and it isn't one now.

Ever since the corrupt referendum I have asked and asked for a tangible benefit to be gained by Brexit and all we got was "you lost get over it". We don't even get the "sunlit uplands" bon mots now we get "it might not be a complete disaster", "we will have enough to eat", "oranges from South Africa" and such as if that was some sort of triumph!

I am so over it I'm past caring. If you can't see that you have been lied to it is only yourself you are deluding.

Kiss that blue passport and cuddle up under your Union Jack bedspread, you've fukked the country, you've shat on the futures of our young people.

Own it.

OK boomer! I can almost smell the gammon.

 

[SmallTown]

There is no "debate" to be done. The original article may or may not be complete garbage. It doesn't matter. I don't care, I didn't read it.

When you have a government that has failed every challenge it has faced, a Prime Minister that barely bothers turning up for weeks on end and ministers handing out billions of our taxes to their chums regardless or more accurately in spite of their proven incompetence, then someone comes along and tries to rationalise "uncontrolled immigration" as a problem. Well, it never was a problem. Despite the lies of the leave campaign and fascist playbook posters that Nigel stood in front of it wasn't a problem then and it isn't one now.

Ever since the corrupt referendum I have asked and asked for a tangible benefit to be gained by Brexit and all we got was "you lost get over it". We don't even get the "sunlit uplands" bon mots now we get "it might not be a complete disaster", "we will have enough to eat", "oranges from South Africa" and such as if that was some sort of triumph!

I am so over it I'm past caring. If you can't see that you have been lied to it is only yourself you are deluding.

Kiss that blue passport and cuddle up under your Union Jack bedspread, you've fukked the country, you've shat on the futures of our young people.

Own it.

In a perfect message board world this could, and should be the end of the debate. It sums up the entire brexit clusterflock and the pug headed reactions of those that somehow still support it perfectly. Let’s end the thread here and give mutely the title

 

[Muttley]

Let’s end the thread here and give mutely the title

Could've spent me bluddy name proper.

 

[BoroFur]

OK boomer! I can almost smell the gammon.

Gammon, really?

 

[NYboro]

Gammon, really?

Must be someone I'm ignoring.

 

[Cooper671]

I am so over it I'm past caring. If you can't see that you have been lied to it is only yourself you are deluding.

Kiss that blue passport and cuddle up under your Union Jack bedspread, you've fukked the country, you've shat on the futures of our young people.

Own it.

“Own it” yes I agree the thread should have ended there as Muttley has quoted the last of remainer catchphrases to complete the full house and he wins Remainer bingo....

If I don’t care or I am over something I usually wouldn’t pass comment as opposed to literally exploding with rage... suppose we are all different though. Maybe it’s the remainer way

 

[HarryVegas]

Gammon, really?

Mike has made his final contribution to this thread, silly! He said so in the reply before....erm....this one.

 

[BoroFur]

“Own it” yes I agree the thread should have ended there as Muttley has quoted the last of remainer catchphrases to complete the full house and he wins Remainer bingo....

If I don’t care or I am over something I usually wouldn’t pass comment as opposed to literally exploding with rage... suppose we are all different though. Maybe it’s the remainer way

'Literally exploding with rage'?

That's not how he's come across at all.

And the irony of you talking about 'remainer catchphrases' then going on to use a 'leaver catchphrase' in the same sentence is clearly lost on you.

 

[Kosovo]

If a leaver had finished a post off like that I would imagine plenty of posts from remainers about gammon rage or it could just be which side we look in from makes it look that way.

 

[Lefty]

The issues regarding food imports are not as bad as are made out and at the same time they are also worse.

To put into context, at the start of WW2 we only home produced about 33% of our food. Thanks to a huge effort by the population - land girls, dig for victory, modernisation, rationing and a lot of land was turned over to agriculture, even parks and public gardens, between 1939 and 1945 imports of food were halved and the acreage of British land used for food production increased by 80%. It was estimated that over 1.4 million people had allotments by 1945. We were healthier than we'd ever been.

In the early 1980's we were actually as high as 82% self sufficient. We currently are about 61% self sufficient overall.

About 80% of our beef and cheese is homegrown but about 55% of our fruit and vegetables are imported. So, we need to significantly adapt land and change our eating habits and choices, including eating vegetable protein that would usually be used for animals. Have we got the land? How will this affect the environment? How is climate change going to impact us if we become more self reliant?

This all might be good, who knows. It's not what we currently actually prefer though, or else we would have chosen to do this already. So we will be going from an optimized system economically and for desirability, to one less so.

Of the food and drink that we currently import, 79% comes from the EU, 9% from bilateral agreements eg Canada, Norway, Chile and 1% under GSP (ie lower than WTO tariffs). Only 11% is under WTO MFN terms such as with USA, China, Australia, Brazil.

On top of the currency hit we have already seen increase prices of certain things, there will be an average 22% tariff on food imports if we leave without a deal, under WTO rules unless we quickly drop them. We no doubt will on produce we can't grow here, but for a lot of products there are tricky considerations for domestic producers. Then there is the issue about replacing EU subsidies.

So, this is quite a tricky thing for the government, who are not used to this, to organise. Do we think they can manage this and Covid? They must because they haven't asked for an extension.

I haven't even started on the sanitary/phytosanitary inspections, customs declarations, infrastructure, storage, transport licences, pallets and so on.

I fear it is going to be an initial sharp shock followed by a long slow death, like being bled out by a Komodo Dragon bite.