What is the actual aim this season?

Beginning of the season I thought in terms of points. 75 points would equal Carrick's first season. 76 points would equal our best return since relegation (under Pulis). 80 points would be better than anyone other than AK since relegation under Southgate.
Given that we got 69 points last season, 75+ would show a decent level of improvement.
You can't control what place you end up in but you can think in terms of points.
For me, anything under 75 points is a failure.
75-79 points is par for the course and shows improvement
80+ shows significant improvement.
At the moment we're tracking at around 71-72 points which would be really disappointing. Might be enough to squeak into 6th place but it would look remarkably like we're treading water.
 
Leeds did not strengthen this summer,
Didn’t need to.
Burnley are not world beaters
Much better squad than us.
and Sheff U are poor.
Really? Top 2, game in hand, even after a points deduction.
Carrick has such a big squad he really should be able to cope better than he has.
Our squad is nowhere near as good as any of these, even if we hadn’t had injuries (which we have). Yes we had a big net spend, which has taken us from miles behind them to closer to them.

Our only way to get promoted while competing against relegated teams and parachute payments is to either scrape through the playoffs or keep building like we have been for a few more seasons to try and close the gap further.
 
The aim, same as every other season at every club, to win as many games and pick up as many points as possible. That's league football, it's a simple format.

It matters not what statements are made by chairmen and managers, the best team of the season wins the league, the worst finishes bottom.
 
Think we've underperformed a bit this season. It's been fine lines in a lot of games though, that's football.

As frustrating as some results have been, having sat through the dross served up by the most the managers we've had over the last decade, I'm still more than happy with Carrick.

We don't half have some chuffing babies amongst our fanbase.
 
Gibson enabled the club to keep players that other Championship clubs would have cashed in on: Latte Lath, Hackney, VdB.
He enabled us to be the biggest nett spenders in the league on top of this.
The manager has a simply massive squad of players.
The recruitment head has recruited players who are worth considerably more than he committed for them.

I'm sure the start of the season saw Gibson and Scott expect a minimum of the top 6, with an expectation that we would have a real go at the top 2.
Leeds did not strengthen this summer, Burnley are not world beaters and Sheff U are poor. This was the season to have a real go.

We do appear to be blighted by injuries to a degree, but Carrick has such a big squad he really should be able to cope better than he has.

Our home record is appalling and without excuse.

We may yet stagger into the top 6, but I don't see this "group" having the guile or balls to win them. I don't see Carrick having the capability to inspire or manage his way through.

I'd love to be proven wrong, I really would, but we look miles off going up this season to me.
Do we have a massive squad? With long term injuries we've got 2 players for each position which is pretty standard for any club across most divisions.
 
Think we've underperformed a bit this season. It's been fine lines in a lot of games though, that's football.

As frustrating as some results have been, having sat through the dross served up by the most the managers we've had over the last decade, I'm still more than happy with Carrick.

We don't half have some chuffing babies amongst our fanbase.
Yeah I think even I'd agree we probably should have more points but we're in the range of where we should be which is 2nd-6th.

As long as we don't have a situation where the playoffs are unrealistic before the end of the season then I think we should keep building with Carrick. But then I don't ever really have crazy expectations where I demand that we finish in a certain position or it's unacceptable, especially when the football is as enjoyable as it is most of the time. Teams like Brentford and Brighton were knocking on the door for years before it eventually fell in place for them.
 
Beginning of the season I thought in terms of points. 75 points would equal Carrick's first season. 76 points would equal our best return since relegation (under Pulis). 80 points would be better than anyone other than AK since relegation under Southgate.
Given that we got 69 points last season, 75+ would show a decent level of improvement.
You can't control what place you end up in but you can think in terms of points.
For me, anything under 75 points is a failure.
75-79 points is par for the course and shows improvement
80+ shows significant improvement.
At the moment we're tracking at around 71-72 points which would be really disappointing. Might be enough to squeak into 6th place but it would look remarkably like we're treading water.
71-72 would be disappointing, not “really” disappointing. I agree 75 is probably the target. But, there are things out of carricks control so to blame him entirely is not a fair summary if we fall short. We’ve got 180 mins out of arguably our first choice defence bangura-Lenihan-fry-smith. Certainly if those players were fit they’d have started 40 games between them. I know every team has injuries but that is above and beyond the norm and kills outlet already limited budget.
 
Didn’t need to.

Much better squad than us.

Really? Top 2, game in hand, even after a points deduction.

Our squad is nowhere near as good as any of these, even if we hadn’t had injuries (which we have). Yes we had a big net spend, which has taken us from miles behind them to closer to them.

Our only way to get promoted while competing against relegated teams and parachute payments is to either scrape through the playoffs or keep building like we have been for a few more seasons to try and close the gap further.
Where to start...
Leeds finished 3rd last season, 6 points off 2nd and only 3 points above 4th. They really did need to improve. They largely kept their relegation squad for that first season in the Championship last season, breaking even on a £30m gross spend.
This summer they sold 8 players from a squad not good enough to go up, for £135m. They gave away another 7 and have since loaned out 4 more.
They've spent £26m on 5 players, not even the fee they received from West Ham for Summerville.
Their squad that wasn't good enough to go up last season has generated a £109m nett sum and they are top of the league.

It is a weaker league, Leeds, Burnley and Sheff U are taking advantage of that. We are not. This season represented a major opportunity.

Re scraping through Play offs as our only means of promotion, 9 of the last 20 automatically promoted teams in the last 10 Championship seasons did not receive PP's.
Ipswich 23-24, Leeds 19-20, Sheff U 18-19, Wolves 17-18, Cardiff 17-18, Brighton 16-17, Boro 15-16, Bournemouth 14-15, Watford 14-15. That's almost half of them.
Only 3 times in the last 10 years have both auto promoted teams been in receipt of parachute payments.

4 of the last 10 teams to win the play offs did not receive PP's.
Luton 22-23, Forest 21-22, Brentford 20-21, Huddersfield 16-17.

So 13 of the last 30 promoted sides did not receive PP's in their promotion season.

So apart from that you were of course spot on.
This season was a massive chance for us. Scott certainly thought so and Gibson enabled it to be so.
 
71-72 would be disappointing, not “really” disappointing. I agree 75 is probably the target. But, there are things out of carricks control so to blame him entirely is not a fair summary if we fall short. We’ve got 180 mins out of arguably our first choice defence bangura-Lenihan-fry-smith. Certainly if those players were fit they’d have started 40 games between them. I know every team has injuries but that is above and beyond the norm and kills outlet already limited budget.
What so Rav isn’t in the first choice defence?

To me that is a very tame excuse. When Fry was fit and available in the past, Carrick has often picked McNair. Last season he preferred Engel(!) over Bangura.

We have suffered with injuries but your post is pushing it imo.

And one thing that is very much on Carrick is consistently trying to play out through Barlaser when he has shown time after time after time that he isn’t capable of doing it. He cannot produce under pressure and in tight spaces. You can say he has no choice but to play him as Morris is injured, but to keep doing something that everybody knows does not work is absolute madness.

There is a philosophy, a set of principles, and he sticks to them and I understand that and support it BUT there will always be a time when a small compromise is needed. Even the very best coaches and managers have to do it.
 
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We’ve got 180 mins out of arguably our first choice defence bangura-Lenihan-fry-smith.
You've banging this drum for a while Mart but we went into the pre-season knowing the situation with Bangura and Smith and we replaced them with Ayling and Borges. We wouldn't have signed either of those players if Smith and Bangura were fit. They are the first choice full backs. If they aren't good enough to be considered our first choice then blame Scott.

CB situation is different because players seemed to be closer to fitness and have picked up additional knocks and problems. But again we did bring George Edmundson in late to help and he has been excellent. Probably our MOTM again last night. He has consistently started since he joined us.

I'm sick of hearing people using injuries as an excuse. It's boring. All teams get injuries.

Morris was the main miss from the team last night but our two squad CMs were available. If Howson and Barlaser aren't good enough then we are under resourced in that position and should have done something about it in the summer.

We are almost at full strength in the front 4. Only Forss and Hamilton unavailable? Not many people have either of those in our starting team right now. We still have Doak, Jones, Azaz, Gilbert, mcGree, Burgzorg, Conway and Lath to choose from. We are hardly thread bare.

LB, we have our first choice available. Forget Bangura. He's not even registered. We replaced him.

RB we had both of our RBs available. Forget Smith. We knew he was crocked. We didn't register him either did we?

We have both of our GKs available.
 
You've banging this drum for a while Mart but we went into the pre-season knowing the situation with Bangura and Smith and we replaced them with Ayling and Borges. We wouldn't have signed either of those players if Smith and Bangura were fit. They are the first choice full backs. If they aren't good enough to be considered our first choice then blame Scott.

CB situation is different because players seemed to be closer to fitness and have picked up additional knocks and problems. But again we did bring George Edmundson in late to help and he has been excellent. Probably our MOTM again last night. He has consistently started since he joined us.

I'm sick of hearing people using injuries as an excuse. It's boring. All teams get injuries.

Morris was the main miss from the team last night but our two squad CMs were available. If Howson and Barlaser aren't good enough then we are under resourced in that position and should have done something about it in the summer.

We are almost at full strength in the front 4. Only Forss and Hamilton unavailable? Not many people have either of those in our starting team right now. We still have Doak, Jones, Azaz, Gilbert, mcGree, Burgzorg, Conway and Lath to choose from. We are hardly thread bare.

LB, we have our first choice available. Forget Bangura. He's not even registered. We replaced him.

RB we had both of our RBs available. Forget Smith. We knew he was crocked. We didn't register him either did we?

We have both of our GKs available.
We have a decent sized squad but we can't spend the money that recent relegated teams are afforded. It really is that straight forward. The three teams at the top have better players, we've taken 4 points from 3 games against them. Not a bad return.

We're doing better than I expected this season, I think with luck we will make the play offs.
 
Yeah I think even I'd agree we probably should have more points but we're in the range of where we should be which is 2nd-6th.

As long as we don't have a situation where the playoffs are unrealistic before the end of the season then I think we should keep building with Carrick. But then I don't ever really have crazy expectations where I demand that we finish in a certain position or it's unacceptable, especially when the football is as enjoyable as it is most of the time. Teams like Brentford and Brighton were knocking on the door for years before it eventually fell in place for them.
Are we really in the 2nd-6th range? We could be 8th after tonight. Watford are one point behind and have 2 games in hand. WBA have drawn 10 and won 1 since we played them and are only 2 behind us with a game in hand. They have to start turning those draws into wins at some point. Even splitting wins and defeats in that would have had them above us. We're on course for 71 points which has only just been good enough for the 6th twice in the last 8+ years. It's basically the same as last season, undeserving of promotion.
 
We're on course for 71 points which has only just been good enough for the 6th twice in the last 8+ years. It's basically the same as last season, undeserving of promotion.
71 points has only been enough to make the play offs 4 times in the past 25 years.
75 points has been good enough to make 6th in 21 seasons in the last 25.
13 seasons a team made 6th without reaching 75 points.

Only 5 teams have gone up through play offs with 75 points or less in the last 25 seasons.
 
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Leeds finished 3rd last season, 6 points off 2nd
They underperformed. This season they aren’t.
Leeds, Burnley and Sheff U are taking advantage of that. We are not.
Agree, all with better squads than us.
9 of the last 20 automatically promoted teams in the last 10 Championship seasons did not receive PP's.
So it happens less than once a season on average. There are probably at least 8-10 teams every season thinking they have a chance. Most don’t make it.
Nice manipulation of the stats by the way, picking which seasons to choose. I can do that too. It’s happened once in the last 4 seasons.
Teams with PPs have way more chance.
4 of the last 10 teams to win the play offs did not receive PP's.
Which is why it’s our best chance.
This season was a massive chance for us.
Still is. Our team and squad are in the top 5 or 6. Definitely not the top 3. I don’t know why you think we should finish above that.
 
They underperformed. This season they aren’t.

Agree, all with better squads than us.

So it happens less than once a season on average. There are probably at least 8-10 teams every season thinking they have a chance. Most don’t make it.
Nice manipulation of the stats by the way, picking which seasons to choose. I can do that too. It’s happened once in the last 4 seasons.
Teams with PPs have way more chance.

Which is why it’s our best chance.

Still is. Our team and squad are in the top 5 or 6. Definitely not the top 3. I don’t know why you think we should finish above that.
God loves a trier, but there are limits. 😉

I think we need to be realistic, we struggle against teams that park the bus, Portsmouth, Blackburn, Preston, Bristol C, Sunderland etc we can beat teams who try to play Oxford, QPR, Hull, WBA etc, but we have an unfortunate knack of giving soft goals away sometimes, it is he one thing we are consistent at, often by trying to break the lines and overcommitting players forward we leave ourselves exposed. Watford, Norwich, Leeds, Burnley immediately spring to mind but the goals conceded to Bristol, Portsmouth were softer than a Mr Whippy as well. Coventry had the ball in the net 6 times for goodness sake, albeit against 10 men.

I accept we have players of good ability that are worth decent money. However, we are often slow and ponderous in possession at the back, we have little to no creative threat from the left side, we are weak at full back, winning consistency has been missing all season and our only consistently good performers have been Edmundson and a young inexperienced Doak (loanees).

To put 6 past Oxford and 4 past QPR and 5 past Luton is great, but not when you are year on year losing home games to the likes of Bristol, Blackburn, Coventry and struggle to get points out of Portsmouth, Preston, Swansea etc. I love Carrick to bits, he got a tune out of good players in his first season, so we know he can coach proven players well enough. I do question how good some of our signings really are when we can’t be sure which Azaz, Lath, Conway, Borges, Engel, Bangura, even Hackney are going to turn up. Hamilton has shown nothing really, Silvera is doing nowt at Pompey. Gilbert has done it when started but oddly never gets a look in.

We desperately need two proper full backs and a left winger to give us a push in January but we have bought 3 left backs in the last 2 summer windows Engel is poor, Borges is poor mostly and Bangura is seemingly made of glass like a few others in the squad. We are a long way from being a top three side. Unless we start to develop some consistency and keep key players fit getting 6th will not be a forgone conclusion. It is no good looking fine on paper. Some of this rests with Scott and some with Carrick too.
 
We have a massive squad. To the point we can't register all our players.
But we have a massive squad because we had to spend more money to cover players that are injured long term and done on a budget, something has to give there and experience and quality at cb was the key victim
 
You've banging this drum for a while Mart but we went into the pre-season knowing the situation with Bangura and Smith and we replaced them with Ayling and Borges
If Bangura was fit we wouldn’t have needed Borges and we could have used the budget to upgrade Barlaser. Ayling was brought in to cover smith, if smith was fit we’d have another 700k+ wage budget to invest elsewhere. If Lenihan wasn’t out for over a year we wouldn’t have needed Edmundson and could have used that money elsewhere.

I’ll “bang the drum of reality”, there are consequences to long term injuries it’s sunk costs that reduced your ability in the transfer market. We can’t say we’ve signed cover so it’s irrelevant. There are consequences.
 
But we have a massive squad because we had to spend more money to cover players that are injured long term and done on a budget, something has to give there and experience and quality at cb was the key victim
Exactly, those who aren't registered are either long-term injured or, you would assume, the club have tried and failed to offload them.
 
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