What is the actual aim this season?

[B_G]

We have Sunderland, Leeds, Burnley, Watford & West Brom all to face at home (5 of the top 7 - basically only Sheff Utd away out of the top 7 which includes us).

We've shot ourselves in the foot too many times this season to be thinking of any higher than 4th but we have played a lot of the teams around us away from home, leaving a number of useful home games for us.

Of the other 7 teams in the top 8, we've played 5 away now

We’ve played a lot of the teaMs around us away from home

We don't have a home advantage. We are p1ss poor at home and have been for a season and a half. I don't see being at home as an advantage whatsoever under Carrick. It's one of his biggest weaknesses.

Over the last 18 months:

Home
Played - 33
Won - 15
Draw - 6
Lost - 12
Points - 51

Away
Played - 33
Won - 14
Draw - 7
Lost - 12
Points - 49


As many have pointed out, we have had more stronger sides away from home this season and weaker sides at home. So if anything you would expect the away form to improve slightly and home form to suffer in the back half of the season. Last season we achieved one more point away from home than we did at home. I think it's likely we will do better away from home this season again.

 

[Ratedr69]

Progress would be a place in the play-offs and at the end of the day, that's all you can ask for. (I would fancy us against anyone in the division if it came to that).

Remember Coventry ? you reckon the manager would make a game changing sub if needed too ?

 

[Caesium137]

Progress would be a place in the play-offs and at the end of the day, that's all you can ask for. (I would fancy us against anyone in the division if it came to that).

Coventry?

 

[MidlandsBoroFan]

Last year we had a bad start and a bad injury crisis so we couldn't expect to maintain the previous season's performances.

Are you saying we haven’t this season?

We have 4 central defenders who we own. My own personal order of those is as follows…
1) Rav. Injured for a big chunk of the season.
2) Lenihan. Can’t remember when he last played.
3) Dael. Just back after lengthy injury.
4) Clarke.
Edmundson has done really well, but he was only brought in because of injury.

Best RB? Smith for me. Out for the season.

Best LB? Who knows. They all get injured. Probably Bangura (long term injury) Our 2 who started the season are both out.

Best 2 midfielders? Morris (injured) and Hackney (has been injured).

Anyone name another club in our division with similar problems? The second they miss 1 or 2 players their fans are calling it a crisis. They would absolutely not cope with our injuries.

Expectations have to change. Obviously Carrick is going to say we’re aiming high. Start of the season, maybe we were thinking top 2. Playoffs should be the minimum aim. Personally I think we will get in, which if you analyse our injuries would be a decent achievement.

 

[viv_andersons_nana]

The idea that everything will be fine because we have loads of home games left to play is fairly dangerous imo. Or complacent maybe, that’s probably a better word.

We’ve played 10 home games so far this season and only won 5. We’ve lost to Bristol City, Blackburn and Coventry and drawn with Preston and Portsmouth.

This patchy home form isn’t new either. Last season we only won 10 of our 23 home games.

Last season we finished 8th, 4 points off the playoffs though we were never ever in contention for them. Looking at the league now, if Watford and/or West Brom win tonight then we are 7th or 8th after 20 games. That’s an if, obviously. It might not happen. But on Saturday we have a home against Millwall and there seems to be a consensus that we’ll beat them and be back on track.

But this is the kind of horrible game we fail to win on such a regular basis that it makes you wonder if we are really progressing very much at all. They won at the Riverside last season. We’ve played them 14 times at home since 2010 and only won 4 of those games, losing 6 of them. So they have a better record against us at the Riverside than we do against them.

But the general point is that we just aren’t doing ourselves justice imo. It’s been a consistent pattern not just this season but the last one as well, even going back to the end of the prior season and the playoff matches.

 

[Marvanelli]

The bookies had us 2nd favourites for promotion at the start of the season. I think that speaks volumes about how much we've under achieved.

We weren't clear 2nd fav's though.

Leeds were the outright favourites and then after Leeds we were one of a fair number of teams.

Before a ball was kicked (9th August) according to Oddschecker:

Promotion odds were:
Leeds 10/11
Burnley 7/4
Middlesbrough 3/1
Sheff Utd 9/2
West Brom 11/2

 

[viv_andersons_nana]

Are you saying we haven’t this season?

We have 4 central defenders who we own. My own personal order of those is as follows…
1) Rav. Injured for a big chunk of the season.
2) Lenihan. Can’t remember when he last played.
3) Dael. Just back after lengthy injury.
4) Clarke.
Edmundson has done really well, but he was only brought in because of injury.

Best RB? Smith for me. Out for the season.

Best LB? Who knows. They all get injured. Probably Bangura (long term injury) Our 2 who started the season are both out.

Best 2 midfielders? Morris (injured) and Hackney (has been injured).

Anyone name another club in our division with similar problems? The second they miss 1 or 2 players their fans are calling it a crisis. They would absolutely not cope with our injuries.

Expectations have to change. Obviously Carrick is going to say we’re aiming high. Start of the season, maybe we were thinking top 2. Playoffs should be the minimum aim. Personally I think we will get in, which if you analyse our injuries would be a decent achievement.

This idea as well that we are the only club that experiences injuries, ‘bad luck’ or lose out on points because of officials’ decisions… surely people don’t actually believe that other clubs don’t experience these things too?

And regarding injuries, it feels we’ve had 8 or 9 players out for every game since the start of last season. Something isn’t right somewhere.

 

[Humpty]

We weren't clear 2nd fav's though.

Leeds were the outright favourites and then after Leeds we were one of a fair number of teams.

Before a ball was kicked (9th August) according to Oddschecker:

Promotion odds were:
Leeds 10/11
Burnley 7/4
Middlesbrough 3/1
Sheff Utd 9/2
West Brom 11/2

You're right but given those odds, if that's the basis for comparison, you'd expect us to be in the mix and the truth of it is we haven't even been close.

 

[MidlandsBoroFan]

This idea as well that we are the only club that experiences injuries, ‘bad luck’ or lose out on points because of officials’ decisions… surely people don’t actually believe that other clubs don’t experience these things too?

And regarding injuries, it feels we’ve had 8 or 9 players out for every game since the start of last season. Something isn’t right somewhere.

I’m not talking about luck or official decisions. Every fan of every club is blinkered on this! For every offside Blackburn goal there’s a McGree red card that wasn’t given…

But I am serious about injuries. Something isn’t right, I agree. No idea what. It sounds like a convenient excuse, but I genuinely don’t know of any other clubs that have similar problems. It absolutely makes a difference.

 

[changingman]

honestly - what else is he going to say? Every team is striving to be top of the league but for one reason or another, can't achieve it.

100% this. We're good enough to compete for the playoffs in my opinion and if absolutely everything goes right, maybe top 2 but it's not some kind of divine right. People point to Ipswich last season, who massively overperformed.

We weren't clear 2nd fav's though.

Leeds were the outright favourites and then after Leeds we were one of a fair number of teams.

Before a ball was kicked (9th August) according to Oddschecker:

Promotion odds were:
Leeds 10/11
Burnley 7/4
Middlesbrough 3/1
Sheff Utd 9/2
West Brom 11/2

Which is basically what has happened so far?

Leeds and Burnley (the two sides with PL squads in my opinion) were the two clear favourites and still look like being 2 out of the 3 competing for the autos. We're in the chasing pack which means there's a (albeit fairly small chance) of autos but playoffs much more likely?

 

[BoroPhil]

I don't think anyone is saying 'everything will be fine' because we have loads of home games left against the top teams, it's more 'let's see where we are in May'. Also, yes we have struggled at home but we will probably have more opportunities when we play the better teams at home as they won't be so defensive. So having top half at home and bottom half away (generally) could be a good balance for the 2nd half of the season.

 

[BoroPhil]

Are you saying we haven’t this season?

We have 4 central defenders who we own. My own personal order of those is as follows…
1) Rav. Injured for a big chunk of the season.
2) Lenihan. Can’t remember when he last played.
3) Dael. Just back after lengthy injury.
4) Clarke.
Edmundson has done really well, but he was only brought in because of injury.

Best RB? Smith for me. Out for the season.

Best LB? Who knows. They all get injured. Probably Bangura (long term injury) Our 2 who started the season are both out.

Best 2 midfielders? Morris (injured) and Hackney (has been injured).

Anyone name another club in our division with similar problems? The second they miss 1 or 2 players their fans are calling it a crisis. They would absolutely not cope with our injuries.

Expectations have to change. Obviously Carrick is going to say we’re aiming high. Start of the season, maybe we were thinking top 2. Playoffs should be the minimum aim. Personally I think we will get in, which if you analyse our injuries would be a decent achievement.

quite a few long injury lists here: https://www.sportsgambler.com/injuries/football/england-championship/

 

[1finny]

We’ve played a lot of the teaMs around us away from home

It’s this kind of hope that kills us - have you seen our home form?

This isn’t bed wetting but we are on course for a top 6 finish

I’m not sure you can say that at the moment (well, of course you can)
Watford have 2 games in hand and West Brom 1
If either of them get at least 1 win…. We are on for a top 7 or 8 finish.

 

[MolteniArcore]

You're right but given those odds, if that's the basis for comparison, you'd expect us to be in the mix and the truth of it is we haven't even been close.

Aren’t the odds for where we will finish at the end of the season, not 20 games in?

 

[Humpty]

Aren’t the odds for where we will finish at the end of the season, not 20 games in?

They are of course but do you honestly think we look remotely close to getting close to that forecast?

 

[Nano]

Are you saying we haven’t this season?

We have 4 central defenders who we own. My own personal order of those is as follows…
1) Rav. Injured for a big chunk of the season.
2) Lenihan. Can’t remember when he last played.
3) Dael. Just back after lengthy injury.
4) Clarke.
Edmundson has done really well, but he was only brought in because of injury.

Best RB? Smith for me. Out for the season.

Best LB? Who knows. They all get injured. Probably Bangura (long term injury) Our 2 who started the season are both out.

Best 2 midfielders? Morris (injured) and Hackney (has been injured).

Anyone name another club in our division with similar problems? The second they miss 1 or 2 players their fans are calling it a crisis. They would absolutely not cope with our injuries.

Expectations have to change. Obviously Carrick is going to say we’re aiming high. Start of the season, maybe we were thinking top 2. Playoffs should be the minimum aim. Personally I think we will get in, which if you analyse our injuries would be a decent achievement.

We have had injuries this season but I don't think they have caused many of our problems. Of the defenders that have missed games I don't think there is much between them in terms of quality/ability or consistency. We're not missing star players and replacing them with duds. Our CBs are all pretty much the same level. Rav will go on to bigger and better things but currently he's a young championship defender that makes mistakes. Clarke and Edmondson have been been decent. We have conceded a lot of goals but it's because of the way we play, not the personnel.

At RB there is very little in it. Smith is getting on and is steady but not spectacular. Ayling or Dijksteel aren't big downgrades and are better than Smith at some things. At LB they are all fairly poor, injured or not.

Midfield is the main problem but that's a problem of our own making. Midfielders need rotating often and our back-ups aren't good enough. Howson is looking like time has caught up to him and Barlaser has never been good enough.

Similarly up top we've had McGree missing a lot but he's been like that for two years so we should have recruited to provide better cover. Forss has been injured a lot but he's 3rd choice anyway so no miss. We don't have a back-up to Azaz and again that is our fault in not recruiting one.

 

[MidlandsBoroFan]

quite a few long injury lists here: https://www.sportsgambler.com/injuries/football/england-championship/

Yes, but again it’s what positions, would they have started, how long term they are….

We look ok on that list, though they are all probably starters. Doesn’t tell the whole story. Would have been a different list a few weeks ago. Doesn’t include Fry (just back after months out). Or Rav. Or Engel. McGree is another who’s missed a bunch of games.

I would have picked a back 4 of Smith, Lenihan, Rav and Bangura at the start of the season. How many games played between them so far? A handful from Rav? That looks laughable compared to what we’ve been able to do. Even the obvious replacements have been out.

Again, it looks like a convenient excuse, but when you get so many injuries in 1 area of the pitch, you will struggle. I don’t think the other teams around us have had that.

I heard a Leeds fan moaning before the game last night about their injury problems because they were missing a couple of full backs. Ours haven’t played all season!

 

[RavsFan]

My aim is to get through the season without a steward noticing my increasing frustration with our full backs and for my tv not to be broken when watching away games from home. I suspect I will fail on at least one count, worryingly, Samsung keep sending me emails about new telly’s. How do they know?

 

[atomicloonybin aka ALB]

I said last night that we need our best attacking players to be "on" if we are to compete with the best teams. Azaz had a bad day at the office, Doak was mostly quiet, Ryley seemed a bit unsure about what he should do. Means Latte Lath can't get in the game, and someone in the back six is going to make a killer mistake, or miss an assignation, and it's game over. I thought we played well for spells last night, without really threatening from open play, but they're a machine, lets face it. The top three look like well oiled machines to me. We look like a decent team but not enough to step up. Top two looks miles off, and we're garbage in the play offs. Eight years, probably nine in this wretched division and it's just all wearing thin really. I honestly don't know what we can do given the finances and the way this bloody division shakes out year after year. It all stems back to the Monk appointment which was - and it is hindsight - the wrong one for a recently relegated side with money to spend.

 

[indeedido]

Gibson enabled the club to keep players that other Championship clubs would have cashed in on: Latte Lath, Hackney, VdB.
He enabled us to be the biggest nett spenders in the league on top of this.
The manager has a simply massive squad of players.
The recruitment head has recruited players who are worth considerably more than he committed for them.

I'm sure the start of the season saw Gibson and Scott expect a minimum of the top 6, with an expectation that we would have a real go at the top 2.
Leeds did not strengthen this summer, Burnley are not world beaters and Sheff U are poor. This was the season to have a real go.

We do appear to be blighted by injuries to a degree, but Carrick has such a big squad he really should be able to cope better than he has.

Our home record is appalling and without excuse.

We may yet stagger into the top 6, but I don't see this "group" having the guile or balls to win them. I don't see Carrick having the capability to inspire or manage his way through.

I'd love to be proven wrong, I really would, but we look miles off going up this season to me.