What a mistake sacking Wilder.

[JM14]

He knows the academy players, he’s worked with Middlesbrough staff, from the training photos it looks like he has a good relationship with the players. and he has a huge amount of experience leading players in difficult circumstances. I don’t think any of the other candidates have that.

Stick him in with Steve Agnew as assistant and we’ve got the start of a trusted, fit for purpose team..

Yep zero experience, likely no coaching badges really sets him apart from the rest

 

[newyddion]

Shocked the stats were that close personally, the actual football played and how much we improved as a club and individuals are worlds apart. Those two seasons under Karanka and this years cup run are the only enjoyable seasons in the last 15 years. Shame we didn’t capitalise on any of it

the young suave guy from Real Madrid with backing from Jose Mourinho.. vs last of the summer wine EYYUP AYEWITHMEY!!

We gambled in the prem and it didn’t pay off.. we needed nuts and bolts and instead we went glitter and sparkles!

 

[newyddion]

Yep zero experience, likely no coaching badges really sets him apart from the rest

I thought he did his coaching badges in the Netherlands

 

[jonny_greenings_sock]

Sure, people might say it’s Gibson and/or Scott wanting a puppet, but you could almost argue that that’s more likely to bring about a togetherness the club would never have if the board was constantly at loggerheads with the manager (which was probably the case with Karanka, Monk, Warnock and Wilder).

Isn’t that just bringing in a yes man?

Counter-devil’s advocate to this is that experience is good. To use Chris Wilder’s words, these guys know what success looks like.

Monk is a special case. But Warnock, record holder for promotions. Wilder, promoted in every job he’s ever been in, LMA manager of the year. Karanka (as a number 2 to be fair) has a Champions League on his CV. Who do you trust more?

I know what you mean, it’s better for stability if they’re all on the same page. But by the same logic, hire the 17 year old tea boy to be your chief financial officer because they’re not going to argue back because they don’t know any better.

 

[JM14]

I thought he did his coaching badges in the Netherlands

Doesn’t seem to be anything much about it but the gazette had a story a few days ago mentioning he was currently doing them

 

[newyddion]

Isn’t that just bringing in a yes man?

Counter-devil’s advocate to this is that experience is good. To use Chris Wilder’s words, these guys know what success looks like.

Monk is a special case. But Warnock, record holder for promotions. Wilder, promoted in every job he’s ever been in, LMA manager of the year. Karanka (as a number 2 to be fair) has a Champions League on his CV. Who do you trust more?

I know what you mean, it’s better for stability if they’re all on the same page. But by the same logic, hire the 17 year old tea boy to be your chief financial officer because they’re not going to argue back because they don’t know any better.

What if the 17 year old tea boy is now 35 having put himself through university and worked for your competitors at a higher level?

Success can look very different tbh. a Champions League for a Spanish team looks very different to 10 successful relegation battles in England.

 

[JM14]

the young suave guy from Real Madrid with backing from Jose Mourinho.. vs last of the summer wine EYYUP AYEWITHMEY!!

We gambled in the prem and it didn’t pay off.. we needed nuts and bolts and instead we went glitter and sparkles!

We just didn’t need Steve Agnew, that would have probably done it

 

[newyddion]

Doesn’t seem to be anything much about it but the gazette had a story a few days ago mentioning he was currently doing them

I saw when he joined VVV-Venlo he was starting his coaching badges.. was only with them a season I guess. Not been there over two years now

 

[newyddion]

We just didn’t need Steve Agnew, that would have probably done it

What anyone but Agnew in the Prem? Sounds like the squad went into a bit of a meltdown!

 

[Willow]

I saw when he joined VVV-Venlo he was starting his coaching badges.. was only with them a season I guess. Not been there over two years now

Says in this interview he was on way to competing A licence so I'd assume he had it by now or very close. He talks well about his coaching here, question is can he walk the walk. This is from last summer.

Training Ground Guru | Lee Cattermole: 'Back to school' at Middlesbrough's Academy

FORMER Premier League midfielder Lee Cattermole tells TGG about his transition from player to coach.

trainingground.guru

 

[r00fie1]

Just a thought.
What happens if Lee takes a more circumspect, pragmatic, approach and declines taking the job, in order to gain more experience in coaching and management elsewhere?

 

[viv_andersons_nana]

I would love to be wrong but I don’t see it. What qualifications does he have for the job other than he used to play for us? If Gibson actually makes this mistake for a third time after Southgate and Woodgate it honestly feels pointless bothering with the club because we all know by now exactly how these things end up

I’m clinging to the hope that even Gibson wouldn’t make a decision this bad but the longer it goes on it feels more likely to happen. Really not shocked managers are turning us down either we are a complete mess

Who turned us down?

 

[Otto42]

If it’s Cattermole I will be pleased if it works out, as I was when Woodgate get manager of the month in December 2019 and seemed to have found a formula.

I’ll never get people claiming Southgate was a good appointment, we had the pick of top coaches were established as one of the best of the rest in the top half, which had taken 10 years to achieve and gave the job to the club captain who had no coaching badges. Perversely Southgate’s experience with us has stood him in good stead with England, but no one else has employed him in the EPL since we parted ways with him!

 

[TeaCider]

Shocked the stats were that close personally, the actual football played and how much we improved as a club and individuals are worlds apart. Those two seasons under Karanka and this years cup run are the only enjoyable seasons in the last 15 years. Shame we didn’t capitalise on any of it

They're not that close, he's comparing Karanka's first 32 games and Mowbray's final 14 to Warnock's first full season to suit his argument.

Karanka's first season was 32 games as he took over from Mowbray in November, he got 48 points in those games.
If you were using season as meaning his first 46 games, Karanka managed 24 points in his next 14, so that's 72 points.

If you go off first full season in charge, Karanka got 85 points, Warnock got 64 points.

 

[BiggEggo]

Yeah great manager if you want us to start rebuilding in EFL1

 

[BobendBert]

I’ve never

They're not that close, he's comparing Karanka's first 32 games and Mowbray's final 14 to Warnock's first full season to suit his argument.

Karanka's first season was 32 games as he took over from Mowbray in November, he got 48 points in those games.
If you were using season as meaning his first 46 games, Karanka managed 24 points in his next 14, so that's 72 points.

If you go off first full season in charge, Karanka got 85 points, Warnock got 64 points.

why is he so obsessed with Warnock that he’s prepared to make rubbish up?

 

[TeaCider]

why is he so obsessed with Warnock that he’s prepared to make rubbish up?

No idea, I liked Warnock, but there's no need to try and portray his time here as better than it was, it's disingenuous.

Ignoring the different starting points, you can at least try and spin it as similar with their first 46 games.

Warnock managed 12 points in 8 in 2019/20, then 56 points in the next 38 going in to 2020/21, so that's 68 points compared to Karanka's 72 points in his first 46.

Not identical, but not too far apart.

Obviously Warnock's results then nosedived, and it led to him getting sacked.
Karanka's results only improved and we ended up getting promoted.

 

[atypical_boro]

Isn’t that just bringing in a yes man?

Counter-devil’s advocate to this is that experience is good. To use Chris Wilder’s words, these guys know what success looks like.

Monk is a special case. But Warnock, record holder for promotions. Wilder, promoted in every job he’s ever been in, LMA manager of the year. Karanka (as a number 2 to be fair) has a Champions League on his CV. Who do you trust more?

I know what you mean, it’s better for stability if they’re all on the same page. But by the same logic, hire the 17 year old tea boy to be your chief financial officer because they’re not going to argue back because they don’t know any better.

Well even that is only a bad idea if it doesn’t actually bring about results.

My point being that whatever we think we “know” at this stage won’t actually become fact until we’ve played a few matches.

 

[Pinkers]

He let the club down last season imo.. we missed out on the playoffs by 6 points. The last 8 games he averaged 1 point per game.. 1.75ppg gets us there. He was interested in the Burnley job and our form dropped straight afterwards, sounds like he applied for the Sunderland job in the summer around the time we turned down a deal for Dwight Gayle. He knew the project, it was explained to him and he took the job on that basis.. if he didn’t want to do it, he should have taken the money. The project was explained and promoted by Wilder in press conferences.. it only didn’t suit him when prem money was waved in front of him early doors. He was sacked by the way, he didn’t resign he was touting his wares for a prem job after slagging off players he would later need to rely on.

He clearly stated that he was an ambitious manager, he wanted to manage in the premier league, he made no secret of that.. most fans assumed that was going to be with Middlesbrough. Wilder caught our fans in some kind of spell.. perhaps part due to the demonisation of Neil Warnock?

Burnley aside, which is unforgiveable since we were flying at the time and he had only been here 5 minutes, we can only speculate about what was promised. No doubt it's true that Wilder 'knew the project', but it will have been sold in terms of us getting up and coming quality players (e.g. Strand Larsen, Greaves etc) but at the end of the day the club largely failed to deliver this summer. He talked about 'marquee' signings early in the summer and they didn't happen. Then they sold his best player out from under him, apparently with no viable succession plan, on the eve of the season. It's not a big surprise that he might conclude that the club was not delivering on its promises. This doesn't excuse slagging players etc, but I can see why he would decide he'd been sold a pup.

 

[Redlips]

Pointless sacking him.

Don’t worry we will wait a year and we will offer him a job as first team coach. It is the vogue.