Warnock calling out players for not taking the Covid Jab

[Laughing]

Yes, it has actually. Government impose such a restriction then players would have the choice to either comply with club’s staff policy based on that legal requirement or to leave their employment and not play. I feel certain as to what they would choose to do but ultimately it would be a matter for them.

I’m neither being ridiculous nor sensitive. You brought up the notion that snide comments were being made. I simply pointed out that it came from you, not me.

I’m not arguing that clubs will impose a no entry policy or that the government will impose restrictions. I’m giving you my opinion on what they should do.

And I’m clearly not losing the argument, given the logical flaws in all of the arguments you’re putting forward (and which remain unanswered) hence the ‘giving up’ and honing in on one very narrow part of my post.

Well thats a load of old nonsense. You were snide, though that's not that unusual, you have a cerrtain charm in the way you address people.

The players would have plenty of choices. They have a fixed term contract and changing the law doesn't change those contracts. It hasn't been tested in law at all.

But let's assume you're right for a minute, players could walk away whilst there are still residual value in their contracts with boro and play in another country. No transfer fee, no recompense to the parent club.

The government won't introduce this, but if they did, they would do the same to fotball as the smoking ban did to pubs, close loads down. Thats why the government should stay out of it.

You carry on villifying anyone who doesn't share your world view all you like, it's a dumb idea and our goverrnment would not do it.

Clubs wont do it because again players would walk out and go, for free to another club.

It really is a dumb idea for lots of reasons.

 

[Adi_Dem]

Well thats a load of old nonsense. You were snide, though that's not that unusual, you have a cerrtain charm in the way you address people.

The players would have plenty of choices. They have a fixed term contract and changing the law doesn't change those contracts. It hasn't been tested in law at all.

But let's assume you're right for a minute, players could walk away whilst there are still residual value in their contracts with boro and play in another country. No transfer fee, no recompense to the parent club.

The government won't introduce this, but if they did, they would do the same to fotball as the smoking ban did to pubs, close loads down. Thats why the government should stay out of it.

You carry on villifying anyone who doesn't share your world view all you like, it's a dumb idea and our goverrnment would not do it.

Clubs wont do it because again players would walk out and go, for free to another club.

It really is a dumb idea for lots of reasons.

I wasn’t snide at all. I responded to your snide comment that you were, frankly, giving up. Own it or don’t, I’m not bothered either way. It’s just water off a duck’s back to me and you reverting to a type I thought we’d agreed to leave behind us but never mind. Up to you.

A lot of words without much meaning really. Lots of straw men and ascribing scenarios that I didn’t put forward. Have you ever seen a player’s contract? I have. In fact I’ve negotiated them. Most employment terms include references to company policies and as part of the boilerplate will have clauses around adhering to changes in the law. Those clauses have been tested.

The most telling thing though is what you’ve done with the debate. You’ve repeatedly taken fragments of the arguments I’ve put forward, honed in and focussed on them, taken them to what you see as a ridiculous extreme and then asked me to discuss in that really narrow context whilst conveniently ignoring the main thrust of the rest of the argument.

I repeat, I’m not predicting what this government will or won’t do. I’m simply putting forward an opinion as to what I think they should do. I’ve set out why in detail and as yet haven’t see a valid counter. And I’m not vilifying anyone, I’m simply saying that people can get a vaccine or not but that there ought to be consequences to that decision since it damages the rest of us and puts society at risk.

 

[Adi_Dem]

How's eradicating flu going? How's eradicating common cold ( another type of coronavirus ) going? Not very well. The number of hosts doesn't reduce. Look at Iceland, more cases now than in the first wave. Everyone jabbed. Israel, with their world beating jab program is suffering a horrendous wave of cases. Some jabs do eliminate viruses, of course, but not this one, unfortunately. I go and see my Grandad because he has been jabbed and it works. Is he bothered if I've had it? No, because I could most definitely still have it if I was jabbed. 26 of us watched the Euro final. 12 got covid, 8 jabbed, 4 not. In real life we are not seeing reduced cases because of the vaccine. Have a look. Care home outbreaks are rising and have done months after they were jabbed.

The third movement of the goalposts. First two arguments shot down, let’s try a third. Who is talking about eradicating it?

 

[fmttmadmin]

Everyone I talk to about this in real life, not online, has been shocked and dismayed by the news that the majority of Boro players have not been vaccinated. I am thankful that Neil Warnock has alerted us to this and would appeal to the players to think again and get vaccinated.
The Riverside pitch is presently designated a covid red zone by EFL (only players/officials allowed) it could pretty soon be that this is to protect the public from the players and not the other way around.

 

[Stellify]

The third movement of the goalposts. First two arguments shot down, let’s try a third. Who is talking about eradicating it?

"protecting that individual reduce transmission and mutation, eventually (in this case) ending the pandemic."

If not eradicated, how does it end?

 

[Adi_Dem]

"protecting that individual reduce transmission and mutation, eventually (in this case) ending the pandemic."

If not eradicated, how does it end?

Look up the definition of pandemic.

 

[Stellify]

Look up the definition of pandemic.

Done. Inconclusive. Your argument is so weak. Vaccines protect the taker. I'd ask you to check the case rates of the most vaccinated countries in the world. But you won't because you have an agenda for some reason. End. UtB

 

[Adi_Dem]

Done. Inconclusive. Your argument is so weak. Vaccines protect the taker. I'd ask you to check the case rates of the most vaccinated countries in the world. But you won't because you have an agenda for some reason. End. UtB

Inconclusive

I can explain it to you but I can’t understand it for you. A pandemic ends not by elimination (which is unlikely) but by reducing the level so that it isn’t growing exponentially and isn’t affecting a significant proportion of people. As I’ve also explained a vaccine doesn’t just protect the individual, it also reduces spread, protects others by reducing spread and reduces the chances of mutation. By way of extreme example, if one person had the vaccine they would have a level of protection but the virus would continue to grow exponentially absent any lockdown measures. If however the majority get the vaccine the pandemic ends, the virus stops spreading exponentially and is manageable thereby protecting all of society.

It’s really not difficult stuff this.

 

[NYboro]

Inconclusive. Your argument is so weak. Vaccines protect the taker. I'd ask you to check the case rates of the most vaccinated countries in the world. But you won't because you have an agenda for some reason. End. UtB

Bollox

 

[Sheriff_John_Bunnell_ret]

I do wish the anti vaxxers would stop whining about the fact everyone else things they're a ****.

 

[Andy_W]

Done. Inconclusive. Your argument is so weak. Vaccines protect the taker.

His argument isn't weak, he's just grasping considerably more of this than you, and you don't understand it, or you're pretending you don't due to some faux anti-vax crap.

Or, you're understanding about 50% of this, yet you seem to talk like you "think" you understand 100% of it. I suggest you maybe read some virologists and epidemiologists posts on twitter, it's good, you will learn something direct from those who know what they're on about, just like the rest of the population already have.

Have you ever known of an instance where one thing can do two jobs? Sometimes even the second job might be an unintended benefit? Sometimes the unintended benefit can be worth more than the main benefit.

It's like seatbelts, they help stop the guy in the back of the car getting killed, and also have the added benefit of stopping the guy in the back seat from killing the guy in the front seat, as learned about 30 years ago.

It's like how the initial thought about masks was to protect the user, but then it quickly became apparent that they could be much more help by protecting those around the user, and if everyone wears masks it's a reciprocal benefit.

Vaccines do protect the user, and they also mean the virus is viable a for a much shorter duration in a vaccinated host, this means it struggles to replicate or take hold. This means there's less chance of being symptomatic, coughing, sneezing, needing healthcare, contributing to additional infections of others. Do they stop 100% of secondary infections, no, but do they reduce SAR, yes, certainly, and the difference is larger as each day goes on.

If you don't like reciprocal health benefits, then don't whinge when you can't get in the NHS for whatever as covid cases clogged it up. If you don't like reciprocal moral benefits, then don't whinge when people prefer to live, see and work with others who have equal morals to them. If you don't like reciprocal risk reduction, then don't whinge at others who do like it, and try and encourage it within reason.

I'd ask you to check the case rates of the most vaccinated countries in the world. But you won't because you have an agenda for some reason. End. UtB

Correlation is not causation.

In this case our issues have been through inept government having high cases before we got vaccines and then for letting Delta in with adequate time before the Euro's to massively accelerate, also in our case as we have had practically zero restrictions for months.