War war 2 filums question

Redwurzel said:
The give a flavour of the Eastern Front - Konigsberg was a major German City - the capital of Prussia
80% of city was destroyed - 50,000 German troops were killed defending it in vain. mainly in 3 days of fighting. At end of the battle all the German adults were marched out to one of the many Stalin Prison camps. The children were left in the ruins to fend for themselves for a while. Eventually anyone of German extract was removed and the City was rnamed Kalingrad and the Soviet move dion Russian civilians. During the battle on one surburb 3,000 women and children were allegedly raped, beaten and stabbed to death by the Soviets. (Metgethen). I suspect revenge killings for German atrocities 3 years earlier.

D DAY deaths for the allies were 4,400.
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Forgotten Soldier is one hell of a read. Hallucinatory.

The numbers on the Eastern Front are just hard to wrap your head around. I struggle to visualise something like, to pick one at random from wiki, the battle of Smolensk where the Russians took 750,000 casualties, 450,000 killed vs 100,000 for the Germans, in three weeks. It's just too big, I can't imagine anything on that scale.

War of extermination wasn't it, virtually no prisoners survived on either side. Unimaginable.

The best podcast I've ever heard is Dan Carlin's Hardcore History series on the Eastern Front called Ghosts of the Ostfront. His WWI series is brilliant too.
 
Erimus74 said:
Thanks again bumface, appreciate it

I'm not big into Japanese films during WW2, more Europe war
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You can just call me Steve Erimus. I have already made it public on here that that's my real name. Bumface does have a nice ring to it though, don't you think? Either one is fine with me though mate. People call me all sorts of things. Water off a swan's schlong for me though. I have a pretty thick skin for a bum faced man.
 
Thanks for the heads up on that Korean film - Known also as Battleground 625. Will search it out for watching.
 
Abel Tasman said:
Thanks for the heads up on that Korean film - Known also as Battleground 625. Will search it out for watching.
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I am a bit in love with the actress from that film. And what happens to her character is really heart breaking. Sorry if I'm spoiler-ing it a bit there. It is a really great movie. The only thing that lets it down is the performances from the Western actors. You get that a lot in Asian cinema though. Seems like they just drag any bloke in from the street who looks European and can speak English and then they just mouth a few lines and that has to do. I have wondered about that though. Maybe they're instructed to sound really wooden because the core audience is going to be Asian people who might not speak English that well? So having them act really badly but say things really clearly is beneficial somehow? Probably just a money thing though. Not many Korean film directors can attract and pay for top notch Western actors to appear in their films.
 
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bumface said:
The only thing that lets it down is the performances from the Western actors. You get that a lot in Asian cinema though. Seems like they just drag any bloke in from the street who looks European and can speak English and then they just mouth a few lines and that has to do. I have wondered about that though. Maybe they're instructed to sound really wooden because the core audience is going to be Asian people who might not speak English that well? So having them act really badly but say things really clearly is beneficial somehow? Probably just a money thing though. Not many Korean film directors can attract and pay for top notch Western actors to appear in their films.
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I work as an actor and played the Ralph Fiennes-in-Schindler's-List-type psycho antagonist in a big Asian war film actually, so have a bit of experience of this!

So can confirm, yes, they just drag in anyone off the street who looks a bit European 😁 Makes sense really to use anyone who is local already. Obvs there's a very limited talent pool locally if you're looking for, say, a Russian mafia guy in Tokyo, and it's difficult and expensive to bring in talent from abroad. Whether they're any good or not doesn't matter if it's not for an English-speaking audience. I've watched stuff like Peaky Blinders with Mandarin speakers and they're like, "Jesus, that guy who runs the illegal opium laundry speaks terrible Mandarin, he is not Chinese".

I know TEFL teachers who've appeared as random Westerners in TV shows or ads, and backpackers in India are notorious for being drafted into Bollywood movies.

With our film it was a bit different, all the bad guys were Dutch and it was quite big budget. So they looked locally for good Dutch actors, couldn't find any. They tried casting in Amsterdam but weren't that impressed with the actors. So they decided to cast the main cast in London (five of us went out for 3-6 months), fly us all out and teach us Dutch (!) and do some basic military training, and then use local guys for the smaller parts. This was just tall Western people that anyone knew, they'd recruit backpackers or a bunch of guys from a Dutch furniture company that came on board, we recruited a five a side team one night after randomly playing them. So in the film you've got decent actors speaking horrible Dutch and about 20 Dutch-looking guys who swap helmets and guns in-between shots playing the entire Dutch army. But when you think about it, it probably cost them like 20k-30k each for just our flights and accommodation, and we're not exactly Brad Pitts. Big luxury. And they still had to overdub one of the guys who never got to grips with the language.

You can make a pretty good niche career being a minority actor in an unusual place, especially with war stuff. I bet Vietnamese actors in Hollywood loved the 70s, and man, it's a running joke amongst my actor mates who look vaguely Pakistani or Middle Eastern how much work they got offered in the 2000s as generic terrorist bloke 😁
 
jonny_greenings_sock said:
I work as an actor and played the Ralph Fiennes-in-Schindler's-List-type psycho antagonist in a big Asian war film actually, so have a bit of experience of this!

So can confirm, yes, they just drag in anyone off the street who looks a bit European 😁 Makes sense really to use anyone who is local already. Obvs there's a very limited talent pool locally if you're looking for, say, a Russian mafia guy in Tokyo, and it's difficult and expensive to bring in talent from abroad. Whether they're any good or not doesn't matter if it's not for an English-speaking audience. I've watched stuff like Peaky Blinders with Mandarin speakers and they're like, "Jesus, that guy who runs the illegal opium laundry speaks terrible Mandarin, he is not Chinese".

I know TEFL teachers who've appeared as random Westerners in TV shows or ads, and backpackers in India are notorious for being drafted into Bollywood movies.

With our film it was a bit different, all the bad guys were Dutch and it was quite big budget. So they looked locally for good Dutch actors, couldn't find any. They tried casting in Amsterdam but weren't that impressed with the actors. So they decided to cast the main cast in London (five of us went out for 3-6 months), fly us all out and teach us Dutch (!) and do some basic military training, and then use local guys for the smaller parts. This was just tall Western people that anyone knew, they'd recruit backpackers or a bunch of guys from a Dutch furniture company that came on board, we recruited a five a side team one night after randomly playing them. So in the film you've got decent actors speaking horrible Dutch and about 20 Dutch-looking guys who swap helmets and guns in-between shots playing the entire Dutch army. But when you think about it, it probably cost them like 20k-30k each for just our flights and accommodation, and we're not exactly Brad Pitts. Big luxury. And they still had to overdub one of the guys who never got to grips with the language.

You can make a pretty good niche career being a minority actor in an unusual place, especially with war stuff. I bet Vietnamese actors in Hollywood loved the 70s, and man, it's a running joke amongst my actor mates who look vaguely Pakistani or Middle Eastern how much work they got offered in the 2000s as generic terrorist bloke 😁
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I would love to know which film that was mate. But I'm guessing that you're not going to want to tell me that and I don't blame you. Most of the extras are CGI these days anyway unless you have a really low budget, right? You have just reminded me of one of my oddest experiences in watching cinema. Seeing Vinnie Jones appear in the Japanese film 'Survival Style Five+' . Wasn't expecting that. And Cantona pops up in some odd places too. He's actually a really good actor. He was in a film with Beatrice Dalle not so long ago. Never could have predicted that happening when I was a sixteen year old boy secretly videoing 'Betty Blue' when it was on channel 4 in the middle of the night because I knew that you could see her starkers in that film. And he was pretty good in 'Inhuman Resources' too.

I worked in the arts myself mate but I'm no actor. I do love Asian cinema though. I'm sure that you were really good in that film. I appeared in a film once but it was a video piece by an artist who couldn't even spell her own name properly. And I've regretted that ever since.
 
Here’s a bit of trivia for you Erimus. Steve McQueen’s stunt double in the Great Escape, was a chap called Bud Ekins. They were big buddies, and used to race dirt bikes in California. McQueen wanted to do his own stunts, but was told he wasn’t allowed, and only relented when it was agreed that he could use Bud to do the fence jump. I bought a special edition ‘Bud Ekins’ Triumph Bonneville last year which came with a certificate of authenticity from the Ekin’s family.
 
bumface said:
I would love to know which film that was mate. But I'm guessing that you're not going to want to tell me that and I don't blame you. Most of the extras are CGI these days anyway unless you have a really low budget, right? You have just reminded me of one of my oddest experiences in watching cinema. Seeing Vinnie Jones appear in the Japanese film 'Survival Style Five+' . Wasn't expecting that. And Cantona pops up in some odd places too. He's actually a really good actor. He was in a film with Beatrice Dalle not so long ago. Never could have predicted that happening when I was a sixteen year old boy secretly videoing 'Betty Blue' when it was on channel 4 in the middle of the night because I knew that you could see her starkers in that film. And he was pretty good in 'Inhuman Resources' too.

I worked in the arts myself mate but I'm no actor. I do love Asian cinema though. I'm sure that you were really good in that film. I appeared in a film once but it was a video piece by an artist who couldn't even spell her own name properly. And I've regretted that ever since.
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No, no drama man! Merah Putih (2009), not a classic war movie 😁 Done a few better ones though.

That's me from 42 minutes doing the shouting and the shooting.

King Eric really is a good actor, at some point he'll get something massive I'm sure. Easy part to play but so good in Looking for Eric, what a fantastic film.
 
Beverleyred said:
Here’s a bit of trivia for you Erimus. Steve McQueen’s stunt double in the Great Escape, was a chap called Bud Ekins. They were big buddies, and used to race dirt bikes in California. McQueen wanted to do his own stunts, but was told he wasn’t allowed, and only relented when it was agreed that he could use Bud to do the fence jump. I bought a special edition ‘Bud Ekins’ Triumph Bonneville last year which came with a certificate of authenticity from the Ekin’s family.
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Is it a bike that Bud actually built, or a tribute to the bikes that he built? Very interesting never the less.
 
I know you said you're not so much into films about the Japanese involvement side of WWII, but I'd still recommend Eastwood's double-header Letters From Iwo Jima & Flags Of Our Fathers. Watched them on consecutive nights a few years ago and loved them both.
 
Anterimus said:
The heroes

If you enjoy WW2 films (Filums) I really reccomend this if you can track it down. Don't let a young Jason Donovan put you off. It was a bit like an early Band of Brothers in that it was shown over a few episode. Brilliant true story which I still watch at least once a year.
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On the look out for this at the moment. They did the Heroes 2 as well on the second operation they carried out, Operation Rimau. That had Craig Mclauglan in.
 
Muttley said:
The dangers of nationalism are not confined to those two countries.

However I would take issue with your assessment of US soldiers in Vietnam. Certainly by the later period of the war the soldiers mostly just wanted to make it through the tour and go home. Watch the Ken Burns documentary "The Vietnam War" if you can, it has appeared on the BBC in the past but you might find it on Netflix, Prime or such though it does tend to come and go it is 18 hours split into 10 episodes and gives a very good insight into how the war happened, why it went on so long and the thoughts of those on both sides.
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I agree with the first line e.g. British nationalism in many of its/our colonies and sub colonies could be brutal at times.

Not so much with the second paragraph - Most US forces wanted to fight for their country - they may have come home disillusioned from Vietnam but they certainly mostly went thinking they were doing a job for their country. Mohammed Ali become unpopular in mainstream America for not going, no one I think in the US boxing community supported his stance. Johhny Cash was sent to coventry in the Country and Western scene for his anti Vietnam views. Some ex vets went on anti war demonstrations in the later years, but it was a relatively small minority compared with the numbers who went. The vast majority of captured US pilots never worked with their captors, even when they were severly tortured, they beleived the US was generally the good guys. Ken Burns said up to Tet (late 1967) there was a lot of support for the War. By 1969 support was much less, but Ken Burns said it was still split around 50/50. Richard Nixon the right wing Republican was elected in late 1968, he had always fully supported the Vietnam War. He pulled a lot of troops out (for political reasons) but increased bombings in his 5 years in power. The direct US involvement was wrong from the start (early 1960s), of course.

The French Colonalism in the 1950s in Vietnam was probably even worse.

I guess what gets up my wick is when the film industry puts a modern day liberal/moral stance on some things that went on in the past. We don't learn lessons from history that way - people will do crap for their country if they are asked to and praised for doing it or are brainwashed - don't pretend they didn't. The majority rarely say, is this morally right? (which is too often spun into modern films). Neither can you clean up the past by pulling down old statures and whitewashing some people out. Learn what happened in the past and why and then stop it happening in the present and the future.
 
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Wyke Red said:
On the look out for this at the moment. They did the Heroes 2 as well on the second operation they carried out, Operation Rimau. That had Craig Mclauglan in.
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I have them both but for some reason, I have never got round to watching the 2nd one. May have to do both at some point soon.
 
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