Vaccine Wars

Just remember. My understanding of the situation at present is:

- 10m vaccines from Europe to the UK;

- 0 vaccines from the UK to Europe.
 
Call me old fashioned, but wouldn't it be much better for everyone to cooperate in trying to overcome the vaccine shortage?
You know, things like distributed manufacturing initiatives where other vaccine plants make stuff under licence or plants make raw materials for use in the supply chain.
It benefits everyone in terms of the economy recovering across the continent as well as further afield if we work together to vaccinate rather than fight.
 
Lottowyn said:
The truth is that the French and German governments have handled these vaccinations pathetically and mean they have to discredit us.
Macron now does not come on TV to announce bad news such as a lock down, he pushes his deputy onstage.
As for rejoining the EU, this is not going to happen. We have left and there is no going back.
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'As for rejoining the EU, this is not going to happen. We have left and there is no going back.'

We made a stupid decision. We all know it. We will be in a perpetual state of moving closer and closer back to what we had economically, but without any say, until eventually we do rejoin.

Let's not dodge the vaccine question.

One of the other downsides of brexit is the stupidity resulted in a stupid brexity government full of stupid brexiters. I'm not being insulting for the sake of it. These people have a mindset and background that they know best, which was reinforced electorally by the stupid 17m that they conned votes from in 2016 and the stupid 14m they conned in 2019.

That meant, when Covid hit, we responded stupidly, and tens of thousands have died from a secondary cause of stupidity.

This did lead to desperation from our stupid brexity government mind you, which has, thanks largely to our stupidly underfunded by our stupid brexity governing party of the last 10 years NHS and our fantastic intelligent Remainer Scientific and Pharmacological sectors, resulted in a pretty impressive vaccine roll out programme.

Credit where it is due.
 
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Credit to Bojo and chums for not trying to privatise the vaccine rollout.

Refreshing change. There are lots of great things about this country. Lots are in the public sector which the Tories are ideologically opposed to.

The EU leaders are embarrassing themselves at present. But I'm hopeful common sense prevails over "politics" which is the only reason they'd follow through on the threat.
 
Lefty said:
'As for rejoining the EU, this is not going to happen. We have left and there is no going back.'

We made a stupid decision. We all know it. We will be in a perpetual state of moving closer and closer back to what we had economically, but without any say, until eventually we do rejoin.

Let's not dodge the vaccine question.

One of the other downsides of brexit is the stupidity resulted in a stupid brexity government full of stupid brexiters. I'm not being insulting for the sake of it. These people have a mindset and background that they know best, which was reinforced by the stupid 17m that they conned in 2016 and the stupid 14m they conned in 2019.

That meant, when Covid hit, we responded stupidly, and tens of thousands have died from a secondary cause of stupidity.

This did lead to desperation from out stupid brexity government mind you, which has, thanks largely to our stupidly underfunded by our stupid brexity governing party of the last 10 years NHS and our fantastic intelligent Remainer Scientific and Pharmacological sectors, resulted in a pretty impressive vaccine roll out programme.

Credit where it is due.
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I think you are largely correct about rejoining the EU. They have already said they would welcome the UK back into the EU, but only if there was a clear majority with an apetite to do so, for the reasons you gave earlier.

Joining the customs union and single market is very different though, and that will happen, I think, fairly quickly. Once you can't feed, cloth or house your family, flag waving jingoism takes a very rapid back seat.
 
spanishman said:
Just remember. My understanding of the situation at present is:

- 10m vaccines from Europe to the UK;

- 0 vaccines from the UK to Europe.
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Every dose shipped here from the EU has used lipid nanoparticles in its production. This has been shipped from the UK and USA to Europe to help make the vaccine. Pfizer have said without this their production would stop in 2 weeks.
We can both hurt each other but need to work together.
 
Laughing said:
I think you are largely correct about rejoining the EU. They have already said they would welcome the UK back into the EU, but only if there was a clear majority with an apetite to do so, for the reasons you gave earlier.

Joining the customs union and single market is very different though, and that will happen, I think, fairly quickly. Once you can't feed, cloth or house your family, flag waving jingoism takes a very rapid back seat.
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It may get that bad, but most likely it will just be a gradual decline relative to Europe, which will take a long time to notice and bother people.

It may have a welcome side effect of promoting a more equal society and some badly overdue electoral reform, however, which will be a Brexit dividend.
 
Blf said:
Every dose shipped here from the EU has used lipid nanoparticles in its production. This has been shipped from the UK and USA to Europe to help make the vaccine. Pfizer have said without this their production would stop in 2 weeks.
We can both hurt each other but need to work together.
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I have no problem with what you say. I agree with the argument.

However the overall score is 10M - 0 in favour of an area with a smaller number of people. So in my eyes that is not fair and right. If we all have to work together I would have expected some sort of reciprocal situation. As a minimum.
 
Lefty said:
It may get that bad, but most likely it will just be a gradual decline relative to Europe, which will take a long time to notice and bother people.

It may have a welcome side effect of promoting a more equal society and some badly overdue electoral reform, however, which will be a Brexit dividend.
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There is a certain amount of camouflage with covid at the moment, but once we have to start proper border checks I would imagine a fairly rapid decline would follow. I am not sure how long the government will be able to blame covid for and it will be quickly forgotten about if we do not have a 3rd wave later this year. I am not sure what to expect with a 3rd wave to be honest given the most vulnerable are vaccinated, but they may well all need boosters next winter. If the hospitality and entertainment sectors re-open, fols minds quickly turn to other stuff.

Levelling up will never be more than a tory slogan, I fear.
 
dooderooni said:
Call me old fashioned, but wouldn't it be much better for everyone to cooperate in trying to overcome the vaccine shortage?
You know, things like distributed manufacturing initiatives where other vaccine plants make stuff under licence or plants make raw materials for use in the supply chain.
It benefits everyone in terms of the economy recovering across the continent as well as further afield if we work together to vaccinate rather than fight.
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Looks like the only ones picking a fight are those waving the Union Jack and have, for some reason, felt a little put out because the vaccine they've been puffing their chests out about was developed here, with factories around the globe, now some foreigners are cautious about its side effects.

If a country is cautious about a particular vaccine they have every right to be. There are other vaccines available.

Many in this country have been vaccinated by a jab developed elsewhere and imported, our vaccine programme wouldn't have been anywhere near as successful had we only used the Astra Zeneca jab.

I'm guessing that those who shouted the loudest about sovereignty aren't happy when other nations opt to use it.
 
Laughing said:
I think you are largely correct about rejoining the EU. They have already said they would welcome the UK back into the EU, but only if there was a clear majority with an apetite to do so, for the reasons you gave earlier.

Joining the customs union and single market is very different though, and that will happen, I think, fairly quickly. Once you can't feed, cloth or house your family, flag waving jingoism takes a very rapid back seat.
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I've always thought this. I think a lot of leave voters couldn't care less about the customs union or single market, I think to sell it politically is very doable (although the likes of the ERG, Farage and co will kick up a fuss).

Give it a few years and I think it'll make too much sense not to do it.
 
festa5 said:
I've always thought this. I think a lot of leave voters couldn't care less about the customs union or single market, I think to sell it politically is very doable (although the likes of the ERG, Farage and co will kick up a fuss).

Give it a few years and I think it'll make too much sense not to do it.
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The resistance will be the same. Re-joining the Single Market means accepting the four freedoms, so the 'patriots' won't accept it.

It will be done, but it will be done by stealth. Bit by bit. Touch of legislation here, touch there. Let's face it, the Brexity MP's are astonishingly stupid and lazy. They won't bother to read through legislation and in any case they are too thick to understand it properly anyway.

All we need to avoid is giving them an alarming one page synopsis. Couch it in the right terms and the knob heads would actually champion it.
 
Lefty said:
The resistance will be the same. Re-joining the Single Market means accepting the four freedoms, so the 'patriots' won't accept it.

It will be done, but it will be done by stealth. Bit by bit. Touch of legislation here, touch there. Let's face it, the Brexity MP's are astonishingly stupid and lazy. They won't bother to read through legislation and in any case they are too thick to understand it properly anyway.

All we need to avoid is giving them an alarming one page synopsis. Couch it in the right terms and the knob heads would actually champion it.
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I'd start by calling it "The Make Britain Great Again Act".

That'd get you at least halfway there, they usually read the title.
 
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