Unrealistic expectations

Nero

Nero

Well-known member
Thinking about this over a coffee earlier. Where does the expectation really comes from with England, in terms of media and fans? In my lifetime, I compared England to other bigger European countries, and specifically those with big domestic leagues. The comparison in relation to Finals and Winning Tournaments:

England - 1 final appearance

France - 7 finals, and 4 times winners

Spain - 3 finals, 3 times winners

Italy - 5 finals, 2 time winners

Germany - 5 finals, 3 time winners

It's pretty grim reading the statistics. That doesn't even consider Semi-Final appearances either. Where does the expectation on England come from? It's no wonder the Danish were singing England, it's never coming home yesterday. They're not wrong.
 
Kane, Bellingham and Foden have looked like 3 of the best players in their respective leagues this season. Then look at the seasons players like Rice, Palmer and Saka have had. It's like during the golden generation era, we have good individuals which is where the expectation comes from but good individuals don't make good teams.
 
Uwefuchs said:
Kane, Bellingham and Foden have looked like 3 of the best players in their respective leagues this season. Then look at the seasons players like Rice, Palmer and Saka have had. It's like during the golden generation era, we have good individuals which is where the expectation comes from but good individuals don't make good teams.
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All 3 surrounded by excellent non-English players in teams with either a long tradition of winning, or totally dominating their league in recent times.
 
I made my peace with England years ago.

We have this attitude that we "expect" or "demand" to be winning tournament on a 2 yearly basis.......and continually fall short. Every. Single. Time. The perennial bridesmaids, never the bride.

The creation of the PL and "it's Coming Home" has just poured petrol on what was generally a small fire.

I want England to win, do well, but don't have anywhere near the same excitement/frustration levels as I do watching Boro. Hence why I'm pretty "meh" about the Denmark game and the backlash.
 
I saw a comment elsewhere online last week and really agreed with it that perhaps our undoubtedly talented players are actually over performing in some cases because they are complemented by amazing foreign players in the domestic league and coaching has improved so much that they are finely tuned to play just right within their clubs, who in some cases play European fixtures against much better opponents than many international teams.

They just don't have the time to do that with England and the fans expect them to because we don't see the behind the scenes stuff which propels them to achieve what they do at domestic level.
 
We always have a sprinkling of top class players, but not world-class players. Going back as far as 66, we've had Managers who have come "close", with quarter and semi-finals, but for whatever reason, we just can't get over that line. For me, our "good" England Managers have been:

Alf Ramsey
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Bobby Robson
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Sven -Goran Erikson
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Southgate
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A thought did cross my mind [dont get too many of those]: could it be that in the modern day, we have so many players from abroad in the Premiership that English players who might have been on the fringes, would have stood more chance of getting in the England team? The other question is, why does the England team have to be taken from just the Premier League? Just a few thoughts :unsure:
 
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r00fie1 said:
We always have a sprinkling of top class players, but not world-class players. Going back as far as 66, we've had Managers who have come "close", with quarter and semi-finals, but for whatever reason, we just can't get over that line. For me, our "good" England Managers have been:

Alf Ramsey
View attachment 77923

Bobby Robson
View attachment 77924

Sven -Goran Erikson
View attachment 77925

Southgate
View attachment 77926

A thought did cross my mind [dont get too many of those]: could it be that in the modern day, we have so many players in the Premiership that English players who might have been on the fringes, would have stood more chance of getting in the England team? The other question is, why does the England team have to be taken from just the Premier League? Just a few thoughts :unsure:
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Great point about taking players only from the Premier League.

I’m a huge Southgate supporter but he has made a strategic error not having another left footed full back in the squad. If he’s not keen on the other English options in the PL look at the Championship.
 
Nero said:
Thinking about this over a coffee earlier. Where does the expectation really comes from with England, in terms of media and fans? In my lifetime, I compared England to other bigger European countries, and specifically those with big domestic leagues. The comparison in relation to Finals and Winning Tournaments:

England - 1 final appearance

France - 7 finals, and 4 times winners

Spain - 3 finals, 3 times winners

Italy - 5 finals, 2 time winners

Germany - 5 finals, 3 time winners

It's pretty grim reading the statistics. That doesn't even consider Semi-Final appearances either. Where does the expectation on England come from? It's no wonder the Danish were singing England, it's never coming home yesterday. They're not wrong.
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I think you've answered your own question here.

The expectation comes because other European nations with similar domestic leagues are able to do it, and have done it, therefore it's not unreasonable to expect us to be capable of achieving similar feats too.
 
It might just be me but I’m sure the discussion previously was England struggle in tournaments particularly against big teams as they struggle to keep the ball.
That has been the case either the last 2 games either because of the tactics or players not comfortable receiving the ball under pressure.
Until that improves I can’t see England winning anything.
 
northernrower said:
I think you've answered your own question here.

The expectation comes because other European nations with similar domestic leagues are able to do it, and have done it, therefore it's not unreasonable to expect us to be capable of achieving similar feats too.
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I see what you mean, but that’s part of the problem and the English exceptionalism that Harry was referring to.

Just because English domestic football is good, and clubs compete well in European club football, clearly doesn’t mean the national team does well.

English expectations are a bit like the Tory party at the moment. They’ve hammered the country for 14 years, yet still think they should continue in government.
 
Nero said:
Great point about taking players only from the Premier League.

I’m a huge Southgate supporter but he has made a strategic error not having another left footed full back in the squad. If he’s not keen on the other English options in the PL look at the Championship.
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But the hyperbole - week in, week out, is that the Prem League is the best league in the world, so taking a player from the Championship is not a perceived option.

The other issue that has always dogged England is that the team must contain the "best players". True at school level but not at international level. England must pick their BEST TEAM. Foden and Bellingham look like the same type of player, so they can't both be in the same team.

TAA is in the team but not as a right back. There's a right back playing left back, and Saka on the right cuts back onto his left nearly all the time which narrows the pitch every time he gets it. Shearer was imploring them to go wider, make the pitch bigger, but how do you do that when Saka is always running infield towards Bellingham, TAA, and Foden?

And then Kane wanders around because he's not seeing the ball and gets in the way as well.

It looks like a lot of square pegs on a board with lots of round holes.

Best of luck to Southgate to sort that out.
 
The least we can expect is that we play a formation and team that suits the players, not one that involves cramming 3 right backs into a system that doesn’t suit anyone for fear of not being able to defend a 1-0
 
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