Unpopular opinion??

FatCat said:
I haven’t managed to watch back yet but that was my initial thought that there was a foul on John Stones.
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I didn't pick it up live like many others. It's not a clear foul but it's definitely one that's often given. In fact, I think Chiellini starts to complain about a foul on him before realising Bonnucci has put it away.
 
The players played the Denmark game as a final. Nothing left for the actual final. Should of freshened the starting 11 up.
 
Muttley said:
Stones very nearly scored in the second half of ET and Saka was dragged down by Chielini when going through on goal. I know what you mean and I do think he needs to analyse what Italy did to neutralise us and have a counter strategy ready.
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a few half chances but yeah, we really lacked creativity or ability to control possession for large amounts of the game . Although to be fair, for all Italy’s good passing and possession, they didn’t carve out many clear chances either.

but my main point is what you said too, we didn’t have much of a plan if they neutralised plan A, which they did.

hindsight is a wonderful thing though. We were still 1-0 up in the second half of a final using that Plan A, regardless of how frustrating it can be to watch.
 
LaPennaBianca said:
On a different note - did you see any of the unpleasantness yesterday, FatCat?

You said you were in the disabled section and I've just seen some tweets about it getting rushed by ticketless fans
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There was a lot of rushing going on essentially some people would try to follow another person through the turnstiles and then make a run for it once inside. Most of these guys were caught and thrown out.

I was in the part where about 50 young lads Barged into the part just in front of where I was sat. The stewards were a bit crap so it was mainly other fans throwing them outStan Collymore was there and he was really angry with them.

I think the security really should do better as they kind of let it happen quite a few times.

I didn’t see any fights per se but it was very close at times with threats being exchanged.
 
Randy said:
The players played the Denmark game as a final. Nothing left for the actual final. Should of freshened the starting 11 up.
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That was my one concern going into yesterday. Similar to the rugby team when they beat New Zealand at the last World Cup. That was such a massive effort and occasion that they couldn't back it up in the final.
 
Despite all Italy's possession, they never really created many chances, a couple of comfortable saves from Pickford, the goal they scored was a bit lucky too although it did feel it was coming the amount of possession and attacks.

I thought England's defence was excellent again and as a team when we do keep possession we play it round and look comfortable and confident, which I can't really recall in an England team before so consistently. This gives me hope for the future, hopefully a few tweaks her and there by GS and perhaps a bit more of an offensive approach and it might just come home in the next 3 years.
 
HiredGun123 said:
Fine margins indeed

but I still think Italy wised up to us after 25 minutes, cut off most of our supply out of defence and then pegged us back

we never reacted to that.

so I don’t think it’s overstating it. Yeah it still ended up 1-1, but the problem is we never looked like scoring again and that was due to a lack of tactical change. We seemed to be very slow to react to change things to try and regain any control of possession in the game.

so in that sense, I do think Mancini managed it better, and we made it a bit easier for them to dictate possession and make us no real threat for most of the game.
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I suspect that Southgate would probably agree with that. In his presser this morning he wouldn't be drawn on that until he had watched the whole game a couple of times.

I would guess he will think, even if only in hindsight, we needed to get more possession. Whether he will agree that Grealish was the answer to that question or not, I am not sure.
It may also be that the team was just pushed back, or fell deeper believing they could hold on, as teams often do. This may have been counter to Southgates instructions, I don't know.
 
FatCat said:
There was a lot of rushing going on essentially some people would try to follow another person through the turnstiles and then make a run for it once inside. Most of these guys were caught and thrown out.

I was in the part where about 50 young lads Barged into the part just in front of where I was sat. The stewards were a bit crap so it was mainly other fans throwing them outStan Collymore was there and he was really angry with them.

I think the security really should do better as they kind of let it happen quite a few times.

I didn’t see any fights per se but it was very close at times with threats being exchanged.
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Sounds scary, glad you're alright.

Very disappointing to see. I'm all for people having a good time, but a coked up mob isn't it.
 
Laughing said:
I suspect that Southgate would probably agree with that. In his presser this morning he wouldn't be drawn on that until he had watched the whole game a couple of times.

I would guess he will think, even if only in hindsight, we needed to get more possession. Whether he will agree that Grealish was the answer to that question or not, I am not sure.
It may also be that the team was just pushed back, or fell deeper believing they could hold on, as teams often do. This may have been counter to Southgates instructions, I don't know.
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None of us have the full story either. I suspect at half-time the players felt that they could defend well and stop Italy scoring. They probably weren't too concerned letting them have possession. That was probably the main focus and perhaps led by the players themselves. Once Italy scored changes needed to be made.
 
LaPennaBianca said:
Sounds scary, glad you're alright.

Very disappointing to see. I'm all for people having a good time, but a coked up mob isn't it.
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Yes we got caught in another skirmish later where my mate nearly got knocked out of his wheelchair when a charge on the barriers broke out going back to the station. People didn’t want to wait so they starting pushing the barriers, one of the stewards I’ve never seen fear like that on someone’s face as they pushed the barriers aside and she was almost pinned to the wall.

overall the Germany game and semi final were a much pleasanter atmosphere. Yesterday was a lot of drunken yobs and it wasn’t just the odd one or two either!
 
FatCat said:
Yes we got caught in another skirmish later where my mate nearly got knocked out of his wheelchair when a charge on the barriers broke out going back to the station. People didn’t want to wait so they starting pushing the barriers, one of the stewards I’ve never seen fear like that on someone’s face as they pushed the barriers aside and she was almost pinned to the wall.

overall the Germany game and semi final were a much pleasanter atmosphere. Yesterday was a lot of drunken yobs and it wasn’t just the odd one or two either!
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Awful.

Perhaps the result played a role, but Denmark game was pleasant from start to finish. The worst part was a rendition of 10 German Bombers on the concourse. But there was no violence and no aggression.

An 8pm kick off on a weekend, when the whole country has been locked up. A recipe for disaster, especially given the high díckhead quotient that England have in the fan base.
 
FatCat said:
Yes we got caught in another skirmish later where my mate nearly got knocked out of his wheelchair when a charge on the barriers broke out going back to the station. People didn’t want to wait so they starting pushing the barriers, one of the stewards I’ve never seen fear like that on someone’s face as they pushed the barriers aside and she was almost pinned to the wall.

overall the Germany game and semi final were a much pleasanter atmosphere. Yesterday was a lot of drunken yobs and it wasn’t just the odd one or two either!
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Disgraceful from those involved. That was always a concern with such a late kick-off that idiots would spend all day drinking and cause scenes like that. The Athletic are reporting tension in a section of the stadium where some had forced their way into. Apparently most were ejected by half-time.
 
Nero said:
Once the bitter disappointment has eased it's fair to say Italy were worthy winners. They knocked out Belgium, Spain and were the better team last night.

England had their chances though. I've watched the highlights again and Stones was a whisker from making it 2 - 1 in extra time.
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Anything on that and it was in the back of the net. Keeper was nowhere. That was our Gazza '96 moment
 
Laughing said:
I suspect that Southgate would probably agree with that. In his presser this morning he wouldn't be drawn on that until he had watched the whole game a couple of times.

I would guess he will think, even if only in hindsight, we needed to get more possession. Whether he will agree that Grealish was the answer to that question or not, I am not sure.
It may also be that the team was just pushed back, or fell deeper believing they could hold on, as teams often do. This may have been counter to Southgates instructions, I don't know.
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I don’t think Grealish as a straight swap for Mount would’ve made any difference. I said in other threads that Italy basically doubled up on Mount at times because apart from Kane dropping deep they quickly sussed that all forward play was set up to go through Mount. Once they realised it, they stopped him.

They would’ve just done a similar job on Grealish.

It wasn’t until we had a change in system with an extra attacking player that Italy no longer had the same luxury of putting a couple of players to press one, as they did with Mount. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that we started finally having more of the ball when we changed system.

I think Mount is getting too much flack from some people and it’s unfair because our tactics and lack of reaction to Italy basically forced him into a difficult position. I think Grealish, Foden, Sancho etc would have found themselves having similar problems, due to the way to approached it and Italy approached shutting it down.
 
HiredGun123 said:
I don’t think Grealish as a straight swap for Mount would’ve made any difference. I said in other threads that Italy basically doubled up on Mount at times because apart from Kane dropping deep they quickly sussed that all forward play was set up to go through Mount. Once they realised it, they stopped him.

They would’ve just done a similar job on Grealish.

It wasn’t until we had a change in system with an extra attacking player that Italy no longer had the same luxury of putting a couple of players to press one, as they did with Mount. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that we started finally having more of the ball when we changed system.

I think Mount is getting too much flack from some people and it’s unfair because our tactics and lack of reaction to Italy basically forced him into a difficult position. I think Grealish, Foden, Sancho etc would have found themselves having similar problems, due to the way to approached it and Italy approached shutting it down.
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That's a good point we did go 4 3 3 and things improved a bit with England possession.

@FatCat sorry your day was spoiled. Scenes on social media are inexcusable.
 
Laughing said:
That's a good point we did go 4 3 3 and things improved a bit with England possession.

@FatCat sorry your day was spoiled. Scenes on social media are inexcusable.
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Ahh it wasn’t spoiled so much - I just try and ignore all that, took the shine off it a little bit but overall a great day out barcthe result :-(
 
I think England sitting deep in the second half was due to the players, it wasn’t a deliberate tactic. You hear managers talk about it a lot.

He changed the formation by bringing Saka on for Trippier to try and force them out.
 
Can’t not agree with the OP’s sentiment.

To a lesser degree I think it also threw England off a little. Think Southgates intentions were to keep it tight and then try and win it with changes from them the bench. Having a goal to defend so early, we let Italy dominate and get their composure back.
I wonder if we hadn’t scored would the plan have been to play with more intensity for longer at the start.
 
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