Unacceptible "Paedo" and offensive chants / behaviour at MFC / SAFC Game

My twopennorth. A mob generally operates at the level of its most moronic member. So a football crowd collectively has the IQ and behaviour of that show off thick kid you remember from school. And the best way to encourage said thick kid? Grant him attention. An official complaint will generate a warm fizzing feeling in the loins of yesterday's sad tosspots, together with a rare feeling of accomplishment.
 
atypical_boro said:
Which is fine but they do think the same of us, and it wouldn't be unfair given some of the stuff I've seen/heard over the years.

They're not sitting there going 'Oh Boro....look at them, impeccably behaved as usual'. All clubs have this stuff to contend with. Admittedly some a bit more than others, sure.
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As I said it's dead easy. You warn the fans when buying away tickets that there is zero tolerance on sex abuse chants. That they are being filmed etc. The seats are allocated to home season tickets. Even if they aren't in the correct seats it can't be that hard to identify them seeing as these are the fans going to most away matches.

The fans can be warned when buying the tickets, warned by the coach organisers and the police on arrival. Final warnings over tannoy at the ground. Start nicking them if they continue after a tannoy warning.

I am positive if Boro fans were told this was the plan and that if they were involved in the same sort of chanting they too would be arrested it would end.

Or do we just try and find something viler to chant about (if possible)?
 
go-nads! said:
Or do we just try and find something viler to chant about (if possible)?
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Well this is what some fans do, its totally wrong, but its sort of the way conflict works.

How do you arrest 2000 people if they're all doing it?

I'm not condoning it at all I'm just not sure it easy to solve as you're hoping for.
 
newyddion said:
you know exactly why.. you can't have one rule for one and one for another.. you know what it means.
again we have a do gooder unfortunately achieving the exact opposite of what they want to achieve.

personally you do want it stamping out.. you and if you personally get your way.. then the barrier will be lowered in regards to what is offensive.. oh by the way.. we are still not doing enough to tackle racism, sexism or homophobia.. but it's ok.. because you don't understand it.. you are all very motivated on this one particular issue and therefore it supersedes anything else.

down with bad things eh
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I don't think there should be one rule for one. And personally I don't think singing about shagging my kids is acceptable.

I don't think singing sexist, racist or homophobic stuff is right either and on numerous occasions I have objected to it. I'm not a shrinking violet on these issues. I'd say that labelling an entire fan base as child sex abusers is equally as abhorrent, especially if you are educated about the actual basis and the history.

Personally, it doesn't overly bother me, but as an issue I think it needs addressing by the club.
 
atypical_boro said:
Well this is what some fans do, its totally wrong, but its sort of the way conflict works.

How do you arrest 2000 people if they're all doing it?

I'm not condoning it at all I'm just not sure it easy to solve as you're hoping for.
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How did we stop racist chanting? Arrests, banning orders etc. at the moment the chanting is being condoned by way of acceptance and inaction.
 
go-nads! said:
How did we stop racist chanting? Arrests, banning orders etc. at the moment the chanting is being condoned by way of acceptance and inaction.
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Partly yes, but I'd say it was more about wider societal change/attitudes, increase in numbers of non-white folk living in the UK etc.

This isn't the same, because we're not actually 'victims' here. A Mackem calling me a paedo is water off a duck's back to me, I couldn't tell a black person they should see it the same way if they are racially abused.

The biggest issue here, for me, is dads/mams having to explain to their 6 year old kid what is going on, which is hard. So I suppose you could argue that the victims here are the children in our stadium, but plenty of these @$$holes have kids themselves and it still doesn't stop them.
 
go-nads! said:
How did we stop racist chanting? Arrests, banning orders etc. at the moment the chanting is being condoned by way of acceptance and inaction.
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RACISM IS NOT THE SAME - and racist chanting, gestures, etc still happen

You cannot legislate for Sunderland fans being complete asreholes.. were not having a million man march and were not going to have great speeches' written about it.. there will not be a civil rights movement.. this will not go down in history.
 
newyddion said:
RACISM IS NOT THE SAME - and racist chanting, gestures, etc still happen

You cannot legislate for Sunderland fans being complete asreholes.. were not having a million man march and were not going to have great speeches' written about it.. there will not be a civil rights movement.. this will not go down in history.
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That's a bit stupid really isn't it?

And yes you can legislate for it, seeing as it already has been.

Public Order Act 1986

An Act to abolish the common law offences of riot, rout, unlawful assembly and affray and certain statutory offences relating to public order; to create new offences relating to public order; to control public processions and assemblies; to control the stirring up of racial hatred; to provide...
www.legislation.gov.uk www.legislation.gov.uk
 
The only time I can think of the Boro crowd getting it to stop ( as in them thinking ' that doesn't work ' ) was pre 2000
A retort of "get yer kids out for the lads " was a definite two fingers back / ' so fk ' retort.
It generally stopped it in its tracks.
Dark dark Teesside wit .
Too dark maybe

There were attempts yesterday to retort from the non RF end of the South.
Small town in Yorkshire, then Saville was met with Tony Mowbray one of our own first, before Adam Johnson.
Sh*g yer children met with "dirty mackem b*astards "

The main issue that could be addressed policing wise, is the behavior of them shouting at parents at kids pre match / post match.. like the fella a few pages back.
They're filming everyone anyway. Few picked out of the escort up to the ground for 'inciting public disorder ' , photos in the paper of those doing the same afterwards for another 30 faces.
 
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go-nads! said:
That's a bit stupid really isn't it?

And yes you can legislate for it, seeing as it already has been.

Public Order Act 1986

An Act to abolish the common law offences of riot, rout, unlawful assembly and affray and certain statutory offences relating to public order; to create new offences relating to public order; to control public processions and assemblies; to control the stirring up of racial hatred; to provide...
www.legislation.gov.uk www.legislation.gov.uk
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we don't need extra legislation brought into football.. it will just lead to no shouting, no swearing, no standing... or you lose your job, your house.. you can't watch football ever again.

people on here CRAVE punishment!
 
Will_Graham said:
I'm not so sure about that AET.
Name calling shouldn't be downplayed. It causes massive problems and can end tragically.
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Well yes I agree if it’s bullying.

This isn’t really bullying though is it? It’s just a completely unfunny offensive football chant based on events 40 years ago.

I was just trying to make the point it’s just playground name calling - saw some comments yesterday about it being a hate crime which I found a tad ridiculous.
 
Jonny Ingbar said:
It's interesting that this thread was about the Sunderland chants, rather than all of the unacceptable chanting we all heard today.

It's a fine line to be tread when calling this out, because it's very easy to fall into the trap of being, or at least appearing to be, partisan.
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Excellent whataboutery - you simply can’t compare singing about Adam Johnson (a convicted sex offender) to them lot singing about the whole population of Middlesbrough, who aren’t convicted sex offenders. I’m not condoning the stupid retaliatory behaviour of some Boro fans singing these daft songs btw - they should not react as it’s just going down to the mackems level but you can see why it happens. It only started with our fans after the Adam Johnson revelations came to light whereas the mackems have been doing this since the 80’s. Personally i would just ban them from the stadium and if they do the same to us then so be it. It’s never going to stop because there are no consequences for those doing it.
 
newyddion said:
we don't need extra legislation brought into football.. it will just lead to no shouting, no swearing, no standing... or you lose your job, your house.. you can't watch football ever again.

people on here CRAVE punishment!
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It's not extra legislation. Section 5 deals with abusive language. I certainly don't crave punishment, I'd prefer education and an acceptance that this sort of chanting isn't socially acceptable.
 
outoftown said:
The only time I can think of the Boro crowd getting it to stop ( as in them thinking ' that doesn't work ' ) was pre 2000
A retort of "get yer kids out for the lads " was a definite two fingers back / ' so fk ' retort.
It generally stopped it in its tracks.
Dark dark Teesside wit .
Too dark maybe

There were attempts yesterday to retort from the non RF end of the South.
Small town in Yorkshire, then Saville was met with Tony Mowbray one of our own first, before Adam Johnson.
Sh*g yer children met with "dirty mackem b*astards "

The main issue that could be addressed policing wise, is the behavior of them shouting at parents at kids pre match / post match.. like the fella a few pages back.
They're filming everyone anyway. Few picked out of the escort up to the ground for 'inciting public disorder ' , photos in the paper afterwards for another 30 faces.
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football fans.. shouting at each other.

shouting at the football should not be a crime.. we shouldnt be encouraging the police to treat us all like criminals ffs
 
go-nads! said:
It's not extra legislation. Section 5 deals with abusive language. I certainly don't crave punishment, I'd prefer education and an acceptance that this sort of chanting isn't socially acceptable.
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its not meant to be acceptable
 
newyddion said:
its not meant to be acceptable
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So the point you are making is that we should accept that socially unacceptable chanting is acceptable in a social environment as long as it fits what you consider to be an acceptable level of unacceptability? Does unacceptability need context?

Weird you.
 
outoftown said:
You think 20 fellas shouting paedo at a dad with his kids in the street , which is what it is, ( before or after a game ) isn't criminal ?
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4,000 Boro fans (or the majority of them) calling Patrick Bamford a paedo in unison is also a hate crime by that measure though. I imagine he just thought to himself 'what a bunch of thick morons' when it happened, which is what I do when the Mackems chant this stuff at us.

I agree that all of this stuff is awful, but it isn't so easy to just arrest everyone.
 
atypical_boro said:
4,000 Boro fans (or the majority of them) calling Patrick Bamford a paedo in unison is also a hate crime by that measure though. I imagine he just thought to himself 'what a bunch of thick morons' when it happened, which is what I do when the Mackems chant this stuff at us.

I agree that all of this stuff is awful, but it isn't so easy to just arrest everyone.
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That is a hate crime though.
 
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