UK - "Third World outside London" according to Irvine Welsh

UK Governments have invested a lot in transport, but the vast majority was in London and South East up to HS2. Examples HS1 lines, Elizabeth Line.

They have subsidised steel production in Wales recently, but not on the scale of say of the US or Chinese Governments. Those Welsh plants are now closing because of big losses.

The UK Government in 2015 encouraged Chinese Government and French to make large investments in Hinkley Point C - a giant new nuclear power station in Somerset. Of course the profits will go overseas when it begins generating power in 2028.
 
According to the London Chamber of Commerce for every £10 the treasury receives £4 of it comes from the Greater London area despite only having 13% of the UKs population. I imagine if you put the surrounding areas of the South East into the reckoning then the imbalance will become even more pronounced despite the increased population. Forgive my basic reckoning ( and apologies if I am wrong) but if the country is running a defect on what it takes in to what it pays out then it most likely that it is the London and South East Area which is keeping the rest of the country a float. But that could be because the central government has not helped in this situation by not trying to take steps to address it, and Scotland in the long run could benefit from independence. but obviously it wouldn't be perfect and you might end up with a situation where Glasgow has the same pull in Scotland has Dublin has in Ireland.
And historically?
 
Most places in the UK are subsidised by London/ SouthEast it's not just Scotland. You could argue that to get away from this situation , where jobs and businesses head to the south you might need some short term pain to become economically boyoant like Ireland has, where they are able to draw businesses and jobs in again on their terms.

More like the rest of the country subsidising London and the South east, they receive more than they contribute in tax .
 
Interesting that people think 95% of the population were better off in 1999 than in 2024.

My observations are its about the same - Geographically it has changed though - In London everyone looks better off, Smart Watches seem quite common, nice phones, expensive properties, bikes and cars.
Bookies replaced with nice coffee shops, estate agents, craft bakeries and butchers in the last 25 years.
Football attendances are up.
Lots of people seems to able to go to expensive concerts now
Music is cheaper, no one buys CDs at £12 a pop or Videos at £20 a go.

Tech seems cheaper - phone contracts, broadband, phones

Holidays/Stays away are cheaper taking into account inflation

Petrol is cheaper (inflation adjusted) - 95p? per litre compared with 132p now

I think its tougher for renters and first time buyers, but they are less than half the population, possibly 40%.
 
Interesting that people think 95% of the population were better off in 1999 than in 2024.

My observations are its about the same - Geographically it has changed though - In London everyone looks better off, Smart Watches seem quite common, nice phones, expensive properties, bikes and cars.
I'm not sure personal observations come into it.

Most of the country were objectively much better off due to a number of factors:

- the cost of living was much lower
- No energy crisis
- Low inflation
- working NHS
- Working police and criminal justice system
- National debt was lower
- We were in the middle of a record number of GSDP growths
- We've had a measurable movement of wealth from the many to the few since that time
- For the vast majority, wages haven't kept up with inflation in the last 25 years, which means some of your examples are evidence of how things are worse, not the same.

There are a whole number of measurable and immeasurable reasons why it was better
 
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I agree its more than just observations

I actually feel parts of the NHS are working better to their credit - its a mixed picture for me - on the better side there is much more checking of people now and things like Flu jabs are common.
Energy prices feel to me they have come down recently and energy consumption is down on 25 years ago as houses and devices are more energy efficient than 25 years ago. Look at all these FMTTM posters paying 4p to 5p per mile to drive around in the electric cars!
Inflation now is no higher than 25 years ago - 3% now and then in approx terms?
More people are in prison now so something must be working on the criminal justice system
There are less physical Police but there is less old style crime (a lot is now scams, cyber etc) say joy riding

National debt was lower agreed, but 99.9% of population don't notice.

GDP growth is similar and again average people would not know - they look at their income and costs, Incomes have risen in line with costs for the average person over 25 years.

The wealthy have got wealthier, but most people are not wealthy or poor. I do think there is more an underclass living on foodbanks, begging, sleeping rough which is worrying. Those in the middle which is the majority of the population maybe aren't even aware. Cuts in some welfare benefits since 2010 are hurting.

One definite improvement is the rise in the minimum wage from £4ish to £11.44 living wage - well above inflation.

I do think life is tougher for younger people with bigger student debts and bigger mortgages and rents, but older people have more wealth so it sort of balances out as a society. Not saying that is fair neither. All parties have follow policies to increase house prices above inflation often to get votes from homeowners e.g. restricted house building, lower taxes on property, increased immigration, given out subsidies to house buyers, stopped councils building.

There are a lot more demands on the NHS and people expectations have risen a bit. It is creaking, but there were problems in 1999 too. For example 50,000 people a year died of flu and people died a bit younger than now.

There are many more scams and people need to be more alert.
 
actually feel parts of the NHS are working better to their credit - its a mixed picture for me - on the better side there is much more checking of people now and things like Flu jabs are common.
I’m not sure there’s any evidence of more flu jabs taking place to 25 years ago? As a whole, it’s pretty undeniable that the nhs is in a worse state than 25 years ago. The waiting lists alone tell you that and that was before covid

Energy prices feel to me they have come down recently and energy consumption is down on 25 years ago as houses and devices are more energy efficient than 25 years ago.
Devices are built to more efficient correct, but 25 years ago we didn’t have 4 mobiles in
The house, we had smaller the. I’d be surprised if any drop in electricity use is anything more than negligible

Look at all these FMTTM posters paying 4p to 5p per mile to drive around in the electric cars!
Outliers really. It’s energy companies selling cheap electricity at 3am as the demand is low and it’s cheaper to sell at a lower price than have the infrastructure to store electricity that’s in the grid.

There are less physical Police but there is less old style crime (a lot is now scams, cyber etc) say joy riding
Crime is crime. It impacts and costs to all of us

National debt was lower agreed, but 99.9% of population don't notice.
We all notice as it costs the government more to borrow and can hit inflation through quantitative easing measures

GDP growth is similar and again average people would not know - they look at their income and costs,
Jobs and quality jobs exist when gdp is high. People notice it indirect, they just understand why it’s important

The wealthy have got wealthier, but most people are not wealthy or poor.
Studies show an increase in people below the poverty threshold. There is only so much money in the economy, when you let it move to the very wealthy, everyone else has less.

underclass living on foodbanks, begging, sleeping rough which is worrying.
We’ve all read and heard about people with full time jobs needing foodbanks. It’s not an underclass anymore, many working class people are trapped in low paying jobs and poverty

Cuts in some welfare benefits since 2010 are hurting.
Add in cuts to councils and the services they offer and cuts to government employees wages, and cuts to services that reduce crime too

One definite improvement is the rise in the minimum wage from £4ish to £11.44 living wage - well above inflation.
Yes that’s one improvement, but factor in the propensity for zero hour contracts and you can see why it’s not really enough

I do think life is tougher for younger people with bigger student debts and bigger mortgages and rents, but older people have more wealth so it sort of balances out as a society.
I’m not sure it does, the older people are living longer and tying up the housing and the wealth, making the number of young people struggling even higher than 25 years ago. The cost of higher education is a good point, and probably going to get worse as cost of living crisis and drops in foreign students has impacted revenue

There are a lot more demands on the NHS and people expectations have risen a bit. It is creaking, but there were problems in 1999 too. For example 50,000 people a year died of flu and people died a bit younger than now
Nhs demands will always go up, ensuring the service capacity is a government job and it’s failed over the last 10 years
 
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